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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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parsing Carter Cash? |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | A two name field could be an excellent solution. In fact it does not help much for American actors, but for European ones where middle names are very rare (I even do not know any middle name in France), it is generally rather easy to know if we have a double given name (Jean Paul//Belmondo) or a composed family name (Patrick//Poivre d'Arvor and all the names with Saint). Asian actors are also something difficult, specially with no rule saying where to put family name. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
A two name field could be an excellent solution. In fact it does not help much for American actors, but for European ones where middle names are very rare (I even do not know any middle name in France), it is generally rather easy to know if we have a double given name (Jean Paul//Belmondo) or a composed family name (Patrick//Poivre d'Arvor and all the names with Saint). Asian actors are also something difficult, specially with no rule saying where to put family name. Well, to be perfectly honest, solving the problem for "French" names does not really put a very large dent in the overall problem, I don't think (except perhaps for the French and/or French Canadian localities). I agree with Pete that a two part name field will do very little, in the grand scheme of things, to solve the parsing problem. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Well, to be perfectly honest, solving the problem for "French" names does not really put a very large dent in the overall problem We are not about French names, but non-American ones. Middle name is not used in many countries. If we take the example of Australian actors, middle name (in fact second given names) are not used : Nicole "Mary" Kidman has never used Mary in any credit, though US middle names are real part of used name. In this database, we have to treat all actors. I do not know the ratio US actors/non-US actors, but we have many thousands of non-US actors, from dozens of nationalities, for whom middle name will be always empty, which justify my position. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I do not know the ratio US actors/non-US actors, but we have many thousands of non-US actors, from dozens of nationalities, for whom middle name will be always empty, which justify my position. I'm confused. If the "middle name will always be empty", then there is no problem with parsing these names today. Since the problem is mainly one with "American" names, then I stand by my statement that changing to a two part name field will have little impact. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
If the "middle name will always be empty", then there is no problem with parsing these names today. In fact we have here the same problem than with accented names. A contributor not familiar with French, and who does not want to make any research, will enter JEAN PAUL BELMONDO as Jean/Paul/Belmondo exactly as he enters FRANCOIS BERLEAND as Francois//Berleand (  ) (sorry to take examples in my language, it is easier for me, but it would be the same in another language). With only two fields, the contributor is obliged to try to find documentation, which is an excellent thing. Everything automatic is a nightmare. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
If the "middle name will always be empty", then there is no problem with parsing these names today.
In fact we have here the same problem than with accented names. A contributor not familiar with French, and who does not want to make any research, will enter JEAN PAUL BELMONDO as Jean/Paul/Belmondo exactly as he enters FRANCOIS BERLEAND as Francois//Berleand ( ) (sorry to take examples in my language, it is easier for me, but it would be the same in another language). With only two fields, the contributor is obliged to try to find documentation, which is an excellent thing. Everything automatic is a nightmare. Ahh.....I misunderstood what you meant.  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I haven't seen much documentation to parsing as it is. So don't see where that would be any different then it is now either. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I haven't seen much documentation to parsing as it is. For most non US names, there is generally no middle name. In most cases, it is obvious to tell whether the second part of the three parts name belongs to given name or family name, and this doesn't need much documentation for main actors. If you rarely saw this problem, perhaps it is because you do not own many movies from European countries... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | For German names we have sometimes something like a second first name, which I always parsed 1/2/3. (This was always my understanding of the middle name field)
For double names which also exist in Germany the correct way would be 12//3. But those are hard to distinguish.
So from my understanding, just splitting in first and family name two fields would be useful for those problems. Even if I never seen a problem or had discussions in always using 1/2/3 for such cases.
But how often did we have parsing questions in which the question was 12//3 or 1/2/3??
The typical questions were 1/2/3 or 1//23.
I think I never understood correct what's the meaning of the middle name in the US. Would it be generally possible ot just split such names into two fields.
And if yes? The problem 1/23 or 12/3 would remain. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 756 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
For most non US names, there is generally no middle name. Er, am I misunderstanding something here? In the UK one or more middle names is very common. In general (but obviously not always), the middle name(s) is(are) neither part of the surname (family name), nor used as a "double" first name like, for example, the French Pierre Yves , or the American Billy Bob., Hence in these cases, correct parsing would be 1/2/3, or in the case of my brother & the Misses Mole, who have three first/given/Christian names - 1/2 3/4. So, using the example in another currently running thread (and without getting into any argument about the CLT  ), Anthony Stewart Head would be Anthony / Stewart / Head. | | | | Chris | | | | Last edited: by Mole |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
With only two fields, the contributor is obliged to try to find documentation, which is an excellent thing. Everything automatic is a nightmare. No they aren't. If they aren't doing it now, they won't do it with two. Instead, they will just put the last name in the last name field and everything else in the given name field. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
With only two fields, the contributor is obliged to try to find documentation, which is an excellent thing. Everything automatic is a nightmare.
No they aren't. If they aren't doing it now, they won't do it with two. Instead, they will just put the last name in the last name field and everything else in the given name field. That is what I was saying... if they don't document properly now... why would they just because there is two fields instead of three? | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
No they aren't. If they aren't doing it now, they won't do it with two. You are perhaps right, and this would be very sad if some users prefer to enter wrong data than verify what they contribute. In fact we already saw this sad attitude from people who find it easier to add spelling mistakes in names than verify accents. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quote:
Why can't there be one field for name again?
[...]
I believe the main argument against a single name field is that you will no longer be able to display actors by the format "lastname, firstname, middlename".
I do not believe that changing a string from "firstname middlename lastname" to "lastname", "firstname", "middlename" is a programming problem. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbbb: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quote:
Why can't there be one field for name again?
[...]
I believe the main argument against a single name field is that you will no longer be able to display actors by the format "lastname, firstname, middlename".
I do not believe that changing a string from "firstname middlename lastname" to "lastname", "firstname", "middlename" is a programming problem. But the string would not be "firstname middlename lastname" if we went with a single name field, it would simply be "name". There is no way for "programming" to know what part/parts within that field constitute the "lastname". | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
A contributor not familiar with French, and who does not want to make any research, will enter JEAN PAUL BELMONDO as Jean/Paul/Belmondo. And why is this a problem? --------------- |
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