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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,580 |
| Posted: | | | | Personally I believe that the more complete notes are, the better, if only for future reference.
On the other hand, as Skip has often pointed out to me, the only standard we can and should go by, is Invelos' rules. So if Invelos says that just a reference mentioning the original UPC is enough, then I will vote yes on such contributions going by Invelos' rules. There's a big difference between 'nice to have' and 'absolutely necessary'.
In the end I would prefer a correct contribution with limited notes rather than no contribution at all because the contributor thinks it's too much work to enter the data and also reverify and retype every little change of the previous contribution. | | | Blu-ray collection DVD collection My Games My Trophies |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote: I have to say I totally agree with Skip on this. If you want to copy, fine, but don't do so without actually verifying it. It may be allowed, but it's simply bad form and bad practice to copy data over then not do any checking on it at all to make sure it is correct for the disc that is in front of you when you are editing the profile. Yes I do realize that it takes time. But that's what it takes to make a quality user created and maintained database. If you feel this way then might I suggest that you help. You own 1,554 and have only contributed 21 Profile Contributions and 21 Image Contributions. The database is a mess. Over the past year or so I have averaged over an hour a day updating and contributing to the database - fixing tens of thousands of errors and omissions. I would love to be able to check everything every time. But, I am only one person and only have so much time. | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote: Quoting Grendell:
Quote: I have to say I totally agree with Skip on this. If you want to copy, fine, but don't do so without actually verifying it. It may be allowed, but it's simply bad form and bad practice to copy data over then not do any checking on it at all to make sure it is correct for the disc that is in front of you when you are editing the profile. Yes I do realize that it takes time. But that's what it takes to make a quality user created and maintained database.
If you feel this way then might I suggest that you help. You own 1,554 and have only contributed 21 Profile Contributions and 21 Image Contributions.
The database is a mess. Over the past year or so I have averaged over an hour a day updating and contributing to the database - fixing tens of thousands of errors and omissions.
I would love to be able to check everything every time. But, I am only one person and only have so much time. Nicely said! | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,580 |
| Posted: | | | | I have to agree with Kathy on this. I don't want sound like a sour grape but it seems the people who most complain about contribution notes needing to be as complete as possible, are those that themselves don't contribute a lot (either because of lack of time or simply because they don't want to).
Any help is welcome: sometimes, that means correct data is submitted with only very brief notes. So be it, then. I'd rather have that than no contribution at all.
It is in that spirit also I believe that Invelos leaves some leniency in the rules regarding notes or even incomplete contributions or big contributions with a small error: you have to weigh the greater good: do you want to throw away contributions that are 99% complete with only 1% incomplete or incorrect, and risk losing that 99% correct data? Would you scare away over half of the contributors by forcing rules that are overly strict and demand notes that take triple the time it does now? I think that's the basic equilibrium that needs to be reached: sufficient good data without going into excesses.
With that in mind, I say bravo to the contributors that take the effort to include very detailed notes, but I also don't hold it against those that don't or don't have the time to do so, provided they submit according to the rules | | | Blu-ray collection DVD collection My Games My Trophies | | | Last edited: by Taro |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
The database is a mess. Over the past year or so I have averaged over an hour a day updating and (...) fixing tens of thousands of errors and omissions. So do I. Infortunately, since some changes in May 2008, rules do not allow to fix all errors, and on the contrary, ask to add sometimes (in fact on quite every no english speaking movie) voluntary spelling mistakes (that are not on credits). Though before that change I have contributed most of my profiles, I can no more do that, since I do not want to give other users wrong data. I can understand that Ken prefers to see those wrong data in his online, but he has to find people who really wants to participate to this game. As they are, rules lead to : 1/ save local correct data 2/ introduce errors that Ken wishes for his online 3/ contribute 4/ restore correct data This is generally too much work for me, and reduced my contributions in a very large scale. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
The database is a mess. Over the past year or so I have averaged over an hour a day updating and (...) fixing tens of thousands of errors and omissions.
So do I. Infortunately, since some changes in May 2008, rules do not allow to fix all errors, and on the contrary, ask to add sometimes (in fact on quite every no english speaking movie) voluntary spelling mistakes (that are not on credits). Though before that change I have contributed most of my profiles, I can no more do that, since I do not want to give other users wrong data. I can understand that Ken prefers to see those wrong data in his online, but he has to find people who really wants to participate to this game. As they are, rules lead to : 1/ save local correct data 2/ introduce errors that Ken wishes for his online 3/ contribute 4/ restore correct data This is generally too much work for me, and reduced my contributions in a very large scale. I understand your frustration and wish that the database were perfect but know that nothing ever is. So, I am willing to accept and contribute according to the standards that Ken has in place. Once that is done I fix those things locally that would violate those standards and lock my database. I also hit the "do not contribute" button so that I don't accidentally contribute in violation of Ken's wishes. |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
So, I am willing to accept and contribute according to the standards that Ken has in place. I also always contribute according to Ken's standards. But an average French movie has about twenty accents in credits. For each one, you have to edit name or role, which takes much more time than editing twenty accents in a single overview. I now prefer spend my time on my headshots or images collections than this stupid work. | | | Images from movies | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote: (...) The database is a mess. (...) I do not agree. It can be improved, sure, but it's not a mess. Actually the database is the main feature which distinguishes Invelos from their competitors. | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting Kathy:
Quote: (...) The database is a mess. (...) I do not agree. It can be improved, sure, but it's not a mess. Actually the database is the main feature which distinguishes Invelos from their competitors. So far today I have corrected/updated 40 errors/omissions on 14 profiles. As I was going through them I was thinking what a mess the database is. I might have been more careful with the word I used but that was what I was feeling and so wrote down what I thought. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote: I have to agree with Kathy on this. I don't want sound like a sour grape but it seems the people who most complain about contribution notes needing to be as complete as possible, are those that themselves don't contribute a lot (either because of lack of time or simply because they don't want to).
Any help is welcome: sometimes, that means correct data is submitted with only very brief notes. So be it, then. I'd rather have that than no contribution at all.
It is in that spirit also I believe that Invelos leaves some leniency in the rules regarding notes or even incomplete contributions or big contributions with a small error: you have to weigh the greater good: do you want to throw away contributions that are 99% complete with only 1% incomplete or incorrect, and risk losing that 99% correct data? Would you scare away over half of the contributors by forcing rules that are overly strict and demand notes that take triple the time it does now? I think that's the basic equilibrium that needs to be reached: sufficient good data without going into excesses.
With that in mind, I say bravo to the contributors that take the effort to include very detailed notes, but I also don't hold it against those that don't or don't have the time to do so, provided they submit according to the rules I would add a third category, taro. Without pointing fingers at anyone in particular, unlike some, i have become very discouraged with the general attitude here in the forums and that is the ONLY reason I do not contribute. Not because of time and certainly not because i don't want to. The attitude stinks and that keeps me from contributing. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote: Quoting RHo:
Quote: Quoting Kathy:
Quote: (...) The database is a mess. (...) I do not agree. It can be improved, sure, but it's not a mess. Actually the database is the main feature which distinguishes Invelos from their competitors.
So far today I have corrected/updated 40 errors/omissions on 14 profiles. As I was going through them I was thinking what a mess the database is.
I might have been more careful with the word I used but that was what I was feeling and so wrote down what I thought. Kathy: You don't even want to know how many tens of thousands of hours I have spent working on this database for FREE in only the last 5 years since i actually started tracking that information, only to deal with poor attitudes,sloppy Ciontribution Notes from other users who really have no interest in building a solid database, and crazy threads that have one single objective. So no I am willing but no one else is and i will not Contribute to a substandard database. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,087 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Darknite: Quote: Should the Contributor who is just Copying and Pasteing the info from one profile to another also add in their notes about the BY's, Common names and Uncredited Cast info they are adding as well.
If they are copying the Data, why not copy the Notes over as well. Not just put from this (xxxxxxxxxxxx) profile. I also got lost in other points so wanted to get back to the original question. For the history of a profile I think it would be good to have this references in, but with just copy and paste of the informations you get perhaps old informations. (Especially on common names and BYs problematic) So the informations and references that should be in the notes should be checked and up-to-date. | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Copying previous notes accomplishes nothing, except a shortcut to not do the work. Suppose the notes and or data are incorrect, suppose the credits are different in the clone. Not to mention the number of times I see (uncredited) brought in because of a clone without ANY verification to the new version. I would NEVER Contribute cloned data which had not been verified against the actual credits. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,337 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote: You don't even want to know how many tens of thousands of hours I have spent working on this database for FREE in only the last 5 years My guess would be, not more than 43800. |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
You don't even want to know how many tens of thousands of hours I have spent working on this database for FREE in only the last 5 years since i actually started tracking that information, only to deal with poor attitudes,sloppy Ciontribution Notes from other users who really have no interest in building a solid database, and crazy threads that have one single objective. So no I am willing but no one else is and i will not Contribute to a substandard database. I have always appreciated the contributions you made to the database. I also have no problems if you no longer desire to do so. But, I take issue with your comments regarding this database and those who continue to contribute. In most cases the contribution notes are adequate and comply with the standards that Ken has implemented for his database. Just because you wish for something different. does not mean that this work is "sloppy". Nor does it mean that the database is "substandard". You have preached to this community for years that the "rules" must be followed. Yet when T!M or I or others do exactly that you still complain and claim we are "insulting" and "disrespecting" the community. Why? Because we are not doing things your way. I'm sorry Skip but I am not required to do things your way. I am only required to things the way the owner of the program wants me to. As a general rule I find the forums a warm and helpful place. The only person that has ever called me names or insulted me has been you Skip. I do not appreciate being talked to in that manner and request that it be stopped. Copying notes is an acceptable practice that the owner of this program endorses. It is his decision and one that the community has the right to utilize. And, god forbid, a mistake in Cast or Crew makes its way into the database there is a wide community of users that will, in time, watch the DVD, find the mistake and correct it. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,480 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Darknite: Quote: If you copy the info from one profile to another, you should copy the notes as well. Older notes are not all available. So when we copy from: for Example a DVD to a Blu-ray. One should also transfer the notes, so we are able to keep the info together, not have to search back to another profile. Personally speaking, there's no way that I'm going to copy forward all of the prior contribution notes. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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