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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Janus Films on The Criterion Collection - Film distributor or DVD distributor??? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
That being said, according to the OP, Janus Films is credited on the film.
The OP does not refer to any specific film.
As I recall, Janus Films is credited on the "leader" along with The Criterion Collection on all of the films that I have (and I've viewed several in the last three weeks)....not "on the film" itself.
If Janus Films appears as part of the film itself, that would be different. On the Criterion Blu-rays I have, the movie starts (going by the runtime for the main feature) with Criterion C logo (not on film), followed by Janus Films logo (on film), followed by whatever production credits and the film. I differentiate logo on film and not on film by presence or absence of film grain and steadiness of the image. Criterion C-logo is rock solid stable as if it's computer generated and encoded into the Blu-ray directly. Janus Films logo, on the otherhand, looks like it's on the film print like rest of the film. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Here's another example: Tarkovsky's "Stalker".
The film's opening titles show Mosfilm, at least the film print on the DVD that I have (Brazilian) does. So that goes into the Studios field. What does the film print on the US release of Stalker show in its opening titles? Mosfilm or Media Transactions? (the latter being the US theatrical release studio) | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
On the Criterion Blu-rays I have, the movie starts (going by the runtime for the main feature) with Criterion C logo (not on film), followed by Janus Films logo (on film), followed by whatever production credits and the film. I differentiate logo on film and not on film by presence or absence of film grain and steadiness of the image. Criterion C-logo is rock solid stable as if it's computer generated and encoded into the Blu-ray directly. Janus Films logo, on the otherhand, looks like it's on the film print like rest of the film. In general, I would think that the titles that come up after you click Play, Start Film or something similar in the DVD's main menu belong to the film, whereas the logos that come up upon insertion of the disc reflect the companies involved in the DVD release (media companies). | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
In general, I would think that the titles that come up after you click Play, Start Film or something similar in the DVD's main menu belong to the film, whereas the logos that come up upon insertion of the disc reflect the companies involved in the DVD release (media companies). But as I mentioned, not for The Criterion Collection Blu-ray. The movie (as encoded in the disc and included in the runtime) starts off with computer generated? Criterion C logo. I think we all agree that The Criterion Collection belongs in the Media Companies listing as the authoring and creator of DVD/Blu-ray. IMO, Image Entertainment also belongs in the Media Companies as the DVD distributor for The Criterion Collection. Janus Films as the license holder could go in the media companies, but where? Before or after The Criterion Collection? Before or after Image Entertainment? | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | From the rules:
Enter in the following order:
- Publisher (Content) - Usually found as a logo on the bottom of the back cover or in the credit block, often containing the words "home video" or "home entertainment. Secondary publishers (eg. The Criterion Collection's Eclipse label) may also be listed.
- Licensor (Home Video Rights) - Usually found (dated with the year of the DVD release) on the back of the box or in the credit block with words words regarding "under license from...".
- Distributor - Usually found as a logo on the bottom of the back cover or in the credit block with words regarding distribution.
P.S.
Does your blu-ray have a menu? (Possibly you have to access it specifically - I also have some BDs that just start the film by default where you have to make an effort to access the manu)) If there is, I'd suggest starting the film itself from that menu and see what comes up as Studios. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
From the rules:
Enter in the following order:
- Publisher (Content) - Usually found as a logo on the bottom of the back cover or in the credit block, often containing the words "home video" or "home entertainment. Secondary publishers (eg. The Criterion Collection's Eclipse label) may also be listed.
- Licensor (Home Video Rights) - Usually found (dated with the year of the DVD release) on the back of the box or in the credit block with words words regarding "under license from...".
- Distributor - Usually found as a logo on the bottom of the back cover or in the credit block with words regarding distribution. So, if Janus Films is the licensor, then Media company listings should be The Criterion Collection Janus Films Image Entertainment for most DVD/Blu-rays in The Criterion Collection.  But question still remains on whether Janus Films has any place in the Studios listing.  | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
The Criterion Collection
Janus Films
Image Entertainment
for most DVD/Blu-rays in The Criterion Collection. Looks acceptable to me. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
But question still remains on whether Janus Films has any place in the Studios listing. Does your blu-ray have a menu? (Possibly you have to access it specifically - I also have some BDs that just start the film by default and where you have to make an effort to access the disc menu)) If there is, I'd suggest starting the film itself from that menu - use scene selection if necessary to start at the beginning - and see what comes up as Studios. If indeed Janus is on the print of the film itself, then I'd say yes. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
But question still remains on whether Janus Films has any place in the Studios listing.
Does your blu-ray have a menu? (Possibly you have to access it specifically - I also have some BDs that just start the film by default and where you have to make an effort to access the disc menu)) If there is, I'd suggest starting the film itself from that menu - use scene selection if necessary to start at the beginning - and see what comes up as Studios. If indeed Janus is on the print of the film itself, then I'd say yes. It does as I've previously posted. Then we have to think about where in the Studio list it goes. Does it take precedence over Theatrical releasing studio in the CoO? Or do we drop that altogether? If we put it after the production studios, it may be a moot point since there are often multiple production studios.  | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'd say that if there's no mention of the theatrical release studio in the CoO anywhere (not on the film print, not on the cover) it gets dropped. If it IS mentioned, keep it. The order of the two - well, tough. Perhaps retain the order in which they are credited?
And I would still put it in front of the production company/companies - that's what the rules tell us to do. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I just reviewed 14 of the 53 Criterion releases in my collection that have a 'Janus Film' credit.
Everyone of them is the same. The film starts with a "leader" for The Criterion Collection, followed immediately by a 'leader" for Janus Films, followed by the actual film opening. The section of film for Janus Films is identical in each and every film I reviewed, telling me that it was added to the beginning of each film just like the Criterion part was added. It is not part of the original film.
Furthermore, let's take Great Expectations as an example. I found several others with exactly the same situation.
The current profile's studio field contains General Film Distributors, J. Arthur Rank Films and Cineguild Productions; all of which appear in the actual film credits.
Which of the three of these do you propose to toss out in order to enter Janus Films into the studio field? Janus films who had nothing to do with the production or original theatrical release of this great film.
Or take The Devil and Daniel Webster. The current profile lists RKO Radio Pictures as the Theatrical Release studio. Should we replace that with Janus films? I certainly wouldn't. Nor would I give Janus films equal billing as RKO Radio Pictures. In fact, I can't quite figure out what Janus Films did in relation to this film, since it was released in the U.S. by RKO Radio Pictures.
Based on the way Janus Films is credited, I would only list them in the Media Company field.
But as I said earlier, mine are locked, so feel free to do whatever you like.
What would be interesting is if someone had copies of these films that were not released by Criterion. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I just reviewed 14 of the 53 Criterion releases in my collection that have a 'Janus Film' credit.
Everyone of them is the same. The film starts with a "leader" for The Criterion Collection, followed immediately by a 'leader" for Janus Films, followed by the actual film opening. The section of film for Janus Films is identical in each and every film I reviewed, telling me that it was added to the beginning of each film just like the Criterion part was added. It is not part of the original film. I don't think that is relevant. It is quite possible that Janus attached their logo prior to the US theatrical release. Quote:
Furthermore, let's take Great Expectations as an example. I found several others with exactly the same situation.
The current profile's studio field contains General Film Distributors, J. Arthur Rank Films and Cineguild Productions; all of which appear in the actual film credits.
Which of the three of these do you propose to toss out in order to enter Janus Films into the studio field? Janus films who had nothing to do with the production or original theatrical release of this great film. None of them should be removed as GFD was the original US theatrical release studio. Quote:
Or take The Devil and Daniel Webster. The current profile lists RKO Radio Pictures as the Theatrical Release studio. Should we replace that with Janus films? I certainly wouldn't. Nor would I give Janus films equal billing as RKO Radio Pictures. In fact, I can't quite figure out what Janus Films did in relation to this film, since it was released in the U.S. by RKO Radio Pictures. Just like the previous example, RKO is the original theatrical release studio, so they get listed regardless of who owns the title now. Quote:
Based on the way Janus Films is credited, I would only list them in the Media Company field.
But as I said earlier, mine are locked, so feel free to do whatever you like.
What would be interesting is if someone had copies of these films that were not released by Criterion. As I said earlier, the only thing I care about is who released the film here in the U.S.. Assuming it was released here, what do I care who released it in the UK, or Spain, or France, or Australia, or Japan, etc.? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
what do I care who released it in the UK, or Spain, or France, or Australia, or Japan, etc.? I'm guessing I care for the same reason you care about the original release studio. If it's a non-US studio, I'd like to know. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | The company that originally brought the movie out is far more important to me than some company who years later buys the rights to distribute it in another country....any other country. Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
It is quite possible that Janus attached their logo prior to the US theatrical release. If you have evidence to support this, please share it with us. Show me, by way of a non-Criterion release of one of these films, that Janus is credited, and I might consider your position. Otherwise, I consider them to have merely collaborated with Criterion and are the same... a distributor (media company). On the non-Janus Criterions that I reveiwed, if there was a second credit before the actual film began (in the same place as Janus Films shows up), it was always a distribution company, e.g., Miramax Home Entertainment for Chasing Amy. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
The company that originally brought the movie out is far more important to me than some company who years later buys the rights to distribute it in another country....any other country.
Show me, by way of a non-Criterion release of one of these films, that Janus is credited, and I might consider your position. Otherwise, I consider them to have merely collaborated with Criterion and are the same... a distributor (media company).
On the non-Janus Criterions that I reveiwed, if there was a second credit before the actual film began, it was always a distribution company, e.g., Miramax Home Entertainment for Chasing Amy. Since The Criterion Collection was created as a private company by Janus Films and Voyager Co in 1984 (bought out by Home Video Entertainment which was subsequently purchased by Image Entertainment) to distribute home media of their film, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Just because Warner Home Video releases all of Warner Bros films on DVD in the US, are you going to call Warner Bros Studio just ... a distributor (media company)? | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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