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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Let's Talk About Contribution Notes |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not even me. But laziness in notes is not useful to any of us.
One bug for example that sticks in my craw. I am all to human and can accidentally mistype something. I see users all the time making what appears to be a typo correction but the ONLY statement i see is Cast per DVD, so who made the typo, I am left to guessing. Did the user make the typo in his Contribution or is he correcting one myself or somebody else made. As I keep saying its not about voting, it is about Clarity and Communication. Ken you say we do not need an encyclopedioa,. but in a way that is precisely what we are building and we need proper documentation that people can understand, not just now but six months or years later whenever someone else decides to make some sort of modification to the existing data that is not based on a Version update.
I see many users defending what I consider an indefensible position based on either simplistic understanding or outright laziness. Yes I am one of the most critical users of myself and others, but don't insult me and expect me to accept data that is not properly documented, you are not being helpful, you are causing extra work required to evaluate each Contribution for usability. I laugh at some of the notes i see, I imagine you submitting a term paper with a bibliography, getting a F for the paper and wondering why.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Disk ID from Disc
Not quite sure where else you could get it, Ken...  On a more serious note: again my concern is for those users not fluent in English, but nevertheless willing to contribute. I fully understand the need for proper documentation, however if this means we will be looking for (or actually: demanding) certain wordings or phrases in the contribution notes, we'd better make damn sure that message gets across to not just the forum regulars, but to the vast and silent majority of users out there. And for non-native speakers we'd better specify which exact wordings or phrases we're looking for. |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | In fairness, the biggest gripe is lack of sources for changes. It is made clear that these are required when making any contribution -  Even though some changes, like ID may be obvious, we are required to provide that information. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think it is about exact wording or certain phrases as much as it is about the notes that are left being useful... not only now when the contribution is up but 6 months from now as well for when we are doing an update and we want to look at the past notes to see what has already been done.
Notes saying only...
From the Case
tells us nothing... what was changed from the case? The Rating? The Title? The Overview? The Rating Details? all this could be "From the Case".
In my opinion when doing notes you have to think about and provide 3 things...
1. List what was actually changed.
2. Tell us how you came to this information (what program/section of DVD/Site used)
3. Does the change need further documentation? (How do we know John Doe and John Henry Doe is the same person?)
If your notes tells us all of the above (where needed for #3) then the notes should be good enough. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | To further this, Pete it is important for us to be able to tell what correct Crew Roles are AS CREDITED, we have users simply making changes, which some of us KNOW are in fact WRONG but many users are just accepting. So, when you have a Crew that the ON SCREEN is not precisely what the data is tell us what it is, so that it can be properly evaluated. Unless, of course the user is deliberately being obtuse and we have those too.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | There has to be a happy medium between requiring rigorous notes for every change at the cost of very few contributions and no notes requirement with tons of erroneous contributions. I think most users tend to operate in this happy medium. I would be interested to know if the number of contributions and contributors have decreased much since contribution rules have started and gotten more and more rigorous. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Disk ID from Disc
Not quite sure where else you could get it, Ken... Picky, Picky, Picky. Yeah, I knew it sounded dumb, but I went ahead and said it anyway. BTW: The Disk ID is probably the only piece of data that I feel relatively free to accept without documentation. The only way to get the Disc ID into the profile is to have the disc in your PC. Of course, someone could put the the wrong disc in the drive and get a bad value, but who would bother? Not too many people, I'd venture. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have seen the happy medium, xradman, complete with those that believe something is better than nothing even if the user used IMDb. I ahve also had to come behind and correct this gatbage and garbage is what it is. The "happy medioum" is nothing more than laziness, both on the part of the Contributing user and the voting user who is willing to accept whatever. Sorry I won't do it and i won't condone it and say that's OK, it is not OK.
Upto the point at which I decided to largely stop Contributing, I had spent somewhere close to 10,000 hours of my timne providing the best data for YOU and the Community that I knew how to provide. yet you want to make that a one way street, you want to gfive me garbage while i give you the best. NO...I expect the same from YOU that I give to YOU. Nothing less.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
There has to be a happy medium between requiring rigorous notes for every change at the cost of very few contributions and no notes requirement with tons of erroneous contributions. I think most users tend to operate in this happy medium. I would be interested to know if the number of contributions and contributors have decreased much since contribution rules have started and gotten more and more rigorous. I will make a contribution of a new profile only if it is something obscure and not in the database. Other than that, I more or less stopped contributing changes. It just gets to be too much hassle at times when you spend more time documenting a change than it did to find the the issue, research it, correct it, and contribute it. At one point we are going to have to attach a copy of the movie so people can watch it and verify your contribution. | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I have seen the happy medium, xradman, complete with those that believe something is better than nothing even if the user used IMDb. I ahve also had to come behind and correct this gatbage and garbage is what it is. The "happy medioum" is nothing more than laziness, both on the part of the Contributing user and the voting user who is willing to accept whatever. Sorry I won't do it and i won't condone it and say that's OK, it is not OK.
Upto the point at which I decided to largely stop Contributing, I had spent somewhere close to 10,000 hours of my timne providing the best data for YOU and the Community that I knew how to provide. yet you want to make that a one way street, you want to gfive me garbage while i give you the best. NO...I expect the same from YOU that I give to YOU. Nothing less.
Skip Bully for you, and thank you for all your time however not everyone has 10,000 hours to devote to this hobby. Even if they had the time my guess is very few would spend it correcting profiles. Again, you are on the far extremest end of everything DVDP. To expect the general public to conform to your ideals is not realistic. Ken himself said:Quote:
DVD Profiler must walk a fine line between enough accuracy to keep one side of the aisle happy while maintaining ease of use and entry to keep the other, generally somewhat silent and large majority happy. (bold added by me) Invelos knows their customer base. I trust them to know what they want with their program as well. If they are OK with the state of the contribution notes (generally speaking) then it is not up to us to demand the create stricter rules for creating these notes. If Ken or Gerri wan'ts something different they are certainly capable of making it happen. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'm sick of seeing contribution notes that simply state:
"Added Distributor/Publisher data"
With no mention of where this new info came from!
Of course the users are right who say we don't need to submit an essay, no reasonable person expects or even wants that. But it is reasonable to expect something like a simple list of what's being added and where the info came from. |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'm sick of seeing contribution notes that simply state:
"Added Distributor/Publisher data"
With no mention of where this new info came from!
Of course the users are right who say we don't need to submit an essay, no reasonable person expects or even wants that. But it is reasonable to expect something like a simple list of what's being added and where the info came from. It would help if someone managed to define where that data should come from, or what "publisher" even means exactly... |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
It would help if someone managed to define where that data should come from, or what "publisher" even means exactly... Now that would just spoil all the fun!  |
| | Registered: May 9, 2008 | | Posts: 467 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Disk ID from Disc
Not quite sure where else you could get it, Ken...
Acutally I've seen at least one case where it looks like it was copied from another profile of the same title but the ID was wrong for the specific release in question, or at least different from the copy I had. Yet, in looking at the notes it was "all from cover/DVD" Tom |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | It DOES happen that there are several disc ID's going around for a single DVD release. AFAIK, people can submit them as they encounter them, and they are all preserved in the Invelos database. This is also why one of the options in DVDP is to lock your local Disc ID immediately after you've worked on them. The mere fact that the contributed disc ID was different from your copy therefore does NOT necessarily mean it was copied from another profile (actually I don't know if that's even possible - this might well be the one field for which you can only enter information by putting a DVD in your drive). And in any case: the info came "from Disc" - the only question is: WHICH Disc... | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 663 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know I'm a little behind in the conversation, but I have to agree with Skip that some users recently haven't been giving detailed notes. I won't give any examples since there are quite a bit already in this thread, I believe they do need to be clear not only to the fellow users voting Yes or No, but also to the person approving and denying the contributions. Sure you don't need to write a novel, but tell us where your data comes from. Also lets get away from just saying "I got my info my IMDB," even though you might have gotten the cast names from the actual credits and few character names from a 3rd party site. The person reviewing this contribution, might just think you are copying data from IMDB and automatically decline the contribution and then you come on the forum asking "why did my contribution get declined?" Well if you're not clear in your notes you will be declined. Here is an example of my contribution notes from "The Dukes of Hazzard: Season 1" Quote:
Here is what I updated:
- Crew: I removed Gy Waldron and Bill Kelley as producers, since they are credited as Co-Producers and not producers, this per rules.
I also removed Joseph Gantman as a producer, since he is credited as Supervising Producers and not producers per rules.
I also removed Skip Ward and Albert J. Salzer as producers, since they are credited as Associate Producers and not producers, this per rules.
The rest of the crew credits are as credited in the episodes.
Cast: These are as credited. For the main cast Tom Wopat - Catherine Bach I used the cast list provided on the DVD case. The rest of the cast had their characters names are screen and I used those. Now I'm not saying everyone should submit notes like mine, but I used submit them all bunched up in the InterVocative days and a lot got declined. I started watching how other users submitted profiles and got approved, so I copied their method (mainly Skip) and modified it to work for me. | | | We're on a mission from God.
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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