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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are now referring to the Video Magazin article. I have a copy of the actual magazine with the full-length review (4 pages) at home, and that is what I quoted from (the "Fazit" section at the end of the 4-page review). Regarding what you're saying about the required connections: they are referring to the requirements for a Blu-ray player - which is why Denon is referring to this particular machine as Blu-ray Transport only. This also explains why they conclude that " Combined with an up-to-date AV Receiver with HD decoders on board it is the most superb Blu-ray player available at this time." Mark's (and my original) reference was NOT to this article, but to this areadvd.de review, which IS available full-length on-line. BTW, I'm not defending Denon policy here - this bare-bone machine could well be overpriced vis-à-vis e.g. the Panasonic DMP-BD 50, which actually tops the Video Magazin Bestenliste. Leaving out the HD-DVD players, the Denon is rated #4, with top-notch picture quality but losing points on features. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks for the rough translations. It's certainly not clear which is the "best" Blu-ray player out there at this time and everyone will have their own opinions. But I think it's fair to say that the PS3 is among the best. And getting back to what started all this: Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Are they seriously claiming the PS3's performance can even come close to e.g. the two new Denon players? What a joke! I've seen nothing yet that questions the PS3's ability to come close to the performance of the new Denon players. I don't know which is better or by how much, but for now, I think the PS3 is one of the best players on the market. Until proven otherwise. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | Criterion sent out a email news letter on Blu-Ray today. Most of it may be found at the end of the FAQ section. | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln | | | | Last edited: by Srehtims |
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| Registered: September 4, 2008 | | Posts: 2 |
| | Posted: | | | | It is my opinion that for everyone already owning a relative good multi channel HDMI AV Receiver, the PS3 is the only logical choice.
Despite the Denon's being rated as 'Reference' products (it would be strange if they weren't with such a pricetag), i have read no test or comment which says it clearly surplusses the PS3.
And do not forget that in order to use the $1000 Denon 2500 with HD Audio you do need a AV Receiver capable of decoding HD audio streams. The Denon cannot do this, whereas the PS3 can transform DD HD or DTS HD into a multichannel LPCM stream and send it over the HDMI cable along with the video. Any good AV Receiver can pick up these LPCM and decode it to analog audio. And as stated before, the whole path is digital, and the audio is lossless. It does not matter that the PS3 must decode HD Audio to LPCM since both are lossless.
For a Denon product to do the same you must wait for the $2000+ 3800BDCI ! This i find a particular strange product. I am sure much of it's huge price tag is due to the fact that it has a Realta video processor. This nice processor (I own a 3930 which has one) excels in deinterlacing and upscaling any source to 1080p. But since must blu-ray content is already stored as 1080p on the disc i find it pretty stupid to equip this player with one.
It would make much more sense for Denon to produce a player with the HD Audio decoders and without the Realta processor.
As stated in the beginning of my post: if you have a AV Receiver capable of reading the LPCM signal from the HDMI input, the PS3 is the only sensible choice. |
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| Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Believe it or not there are some people (not myself at this time) who prefer bitstreaming of the HD Audio codecs simply so they can read DTS-HD MA on the receiver's display screen!!!
The Denon are a niche product in my opinion, made simply for those people who prefer their electronics to wear a merchandising badge of distinction (like having that Mercedes hood ornament) or for those who are simply Denon fanboys!!! I won a Denon receiver and I love my receiver however I wouldn't pay for the over-priced Denon BDPs!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
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| Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote:
Believe it or not there are some people (not myself at this time) who prefer bitstreaming of the HD Audio codecs simply so they can read DTS-HD MA on the receiver's display screen!!!
The Denon are a niche product in my opinion, made simply for those people who prefer their electronics to wear a merchandising badge of distinction (like having that Mercedes hood ornament) or for those who are simply Denon fanboys!!! I own a Denon receiver and I love my receiver however I wouldn't pay for the over-priced Denon BDPs!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting alexbl: Quote:
It is my opinion that for everyone already owning a relative good multi channel HDMI AV Receiver, the PS3 is the only logical choice.
Despite the Denon's being rated as 'Reference' products (it would be strange if they weren't with such a pricetag), i have read no test or comment which says it clearly surplusses the PS3.
And do not forget that in order to use the $1000 Denon 2500 with HD Audio you do need a AV Receiver capable of decoding HD audio streams. The Denon cannot do this, whereas the PS3 can transform DD HD or DTS HD into a multichannel LPCM stream and send it over the HDMI cable along with the video. Any good AV Receiver can pick up these LPCM and decode it to analog audio. And as stated before, the whole path is digital, and the audio is lossless. It does not matter that the PS3 must decode HD Audio to LPCM since both are lossless.
For a Denon product to do the same you must wait for the $2000+ 3800BDCI ! This i find a particular strange product. I am sure much of it's huge price tag is due to the fact that it has a Realta video processor. This nice processor (I own a 3930 which has one) excels in deinterlacing and upscaling any source to 1080p. But since must blu-ray content is already stored as 1080p on the disc i find it pretty stupid to equip this player with one.
It would make much more sense for Denon to produce a player with the HD Audio decoders and without the Realta processor.
As stated in the beginning of my post: if you have a AV Receiver capable of reading the LPCM signal from the HDMI input, the PS3 is the only sensible choice. I agree with almost all of this. I think Denon is including the Realta video processor mainly for people's existing DVD collections, since a lot of DVD titles aren't on Blu-ray yet. Also, remember Denon wants you to pair their player with their A/V receivers which decodes the HD audio just fine. They are counting on their customers buying a new Denon receiver with the BD player as part of a total system upgrade. They are not dealing with the average budget customer with this approach (on purpose). They are after the big fish that only cares about form and function (and not price) in this case.  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Calidain: Quote:
Believe it or not there are some people (not myself at this time) who prefer bitstreaming of the HD Audio codecs simply so they can read DTS-HD MA on the receiver's display screen!!!
The Denon are a niche product in my opinion, made simply for those people who prefer their electronics to wear a merchandising badge of distinction (like having that Mercedes hood ornament) or for those who are simply Denon fanboys!!! I won a Denon receiver and I love my receiver however I wouldn't pay for the over-priced Denon BDPs!!! Quite true, also | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
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| Registered: September 4, 2008 | | Posts: 2 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I agree with almost all of this. I think Denon is including the Realta video processor mainly for people's existing DVD collections, since a lot of DVD titles aren't on Blu-ray yet. Also, remember Denon wants you to pair their player with their A/V receivers which decodes the HD audio just fine. They are counting on their customers buying a new Denon receiver with the BD player as part of a total system upgrade. They are not dealing with the average budget customer with this approach (on purpose). They are after the big fish that only cares about form and function (and not price) in this case. I think you are right. But i also think they took the wrong gamble. They are ofcourse aiming at the AV enthousiast with slighter deeper pockets. But a large portion of these people already own pretty good hardware. I myself own a 4306 receiver and a 3930 dvd player. The price difference between the 2500 and 3800 BR players is (much) greater than the money i would get selling my 3930. So Denon gives me the choice between spending around $2000 for a 3800 (minus selling value from the 3930) or spending around $3000 for the 2500 and a AVR4308. When i go for the PS3 (which i already own, but that is beside the point), i can get the same result for $600 (and play some games, have ethernet functionallity etc.) Quoting Calidain: Quote:
Believe it or not there are some people (not myself at this time) who prefer bitstreaming of the HD Audio codecs simply so they can read DTS-HD MA on the receiver's display screen!!!
Well, thats easely solved: rename your input source to 'DTS-HD MA' and put a piece of black tape over the text 'MULTI CH IN'. Dim the lights and you can't tell the difference  . | | | | Last edited: by alexbl |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I agree with almost all of this. I think Denon is including the Realta video processor mainly for people's existing DVD collections, since a lot of DVD titles aren't on Blu-ray yet. Also, remember Denon wants you to pair their player with their A/V receivers which decodes the HD audio just fine. They are counting on their customers buying a new Denon receiver with the BD player as part of a total system upgrade. They are not dealing with the average budget customer with this approach (on purpose). They are after the big fish that only cares about form and function (and not price) in this case. Since I was recently quite rude to you in another thread, I'm giving you a green arrow here just to point out that this is the kind of participation we value. Plus you're absolutely correct.  | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | One thing I'll criticize Denon for - other than their steep price tags - is not giving their new 3800BD DVD-Audio and SACD playback capabilities. So if you have some of those, you would still need to retain your DVD-3930 (or whichever other model you have that CAN play these formats). I think this is utterly ridiculous and will prevent quite a few people from doing the upgrade alexbl mentioned.  Provided you already have a good upscaling DVD player that can play DVD-A and SACD, I would personally go for the Panasonic DMP-BD50 (or its upcoming successor the BD55) at this point in time: top-notch BR video quality, profile 2.0 and on-board HD audio decoding for those with an older receiver (albeit just 5.1 - the new one will do 7.1). A review can be found here. Note: other reviews (e.g. this one) say the upconverting from SD material by the Panny isn't quite as good as this particular review says it is - that's why I'd prefer a good separate upscaling DVD player. For that purpose, it would be very hard to beat the Denon DVD-3930. For a more moderate-budget upconverting player, try an Oppo or the latest Toshiba. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Speaking of OPPO, looks like we will be seeing an OPPO BDP some time in the near future!!! LINK!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sounds promising! This might just be the one-player-does-all (and does it all very well) many of us are waiting for! | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I came across this German review of the upcoming Sony BDP-S550 (due out in Germany in November @ 439 EUR UVP), the successor to the Sony BDP-S500. They're pretty much raving about it, highlighting - Blu-Ray display with a stable, sharp picture (better than the Samsung BD-P1500, the PS3 and even the Panasonic DMP-BD50, and surpassed only by Denon's expensive DVD-2500BT) - natural colours - very good scaler and de-interlacer - excellent sound per HDMI - very high operational reliability - extensive features. Their ownly criticisms are: - Video Equalising not very effective - internal HD sound decoding sounds somewhat dull. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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