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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Konrad: Quote:
Quoting Agilis78:
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Quoting Konrad:
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The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets. In my understanding of the rules, and I really don't think that I am wrong here, the field "Original title" has to stay empty as the BD's release title is the original title.
If that is the case I entirely agree but is it ?
I am quite sure it is. Let me give you an example of another Luc Besson film which is also a French production by Gaumont and has an English original title: Subway (1985, starring Isabelle Adjani, Christophe Lambert and Richard Bohringer). They didn't name it "Métro", they named it "Subway", so it is obviously not uncommon for Gaumont and specifically not for Luc Besson, to give their French productions English titles. There's a difference though, while Subway is used as the title in France, the Fifth Element is not.   | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
There's a difference though, while Subway is used as the title in France, the Fifth Element is not.
Ahhh...but there's the rub. In the case of the DVD in this image, the DVD title would be "Le cinquième élément" but the Original Title field should have "The Fifth Element" as the original title  | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 |  Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes but on the other hand all his other movies under the same conditions do exactly the opposite. - Le Grand bleu (1988) with Rosanna Arquette, Jean-Marc Barr and Jean Reno was called The Big Blue in English - Nikita (1990) with Tchéky Karyo and Anne Parillaud was called La Femme Nikita in English - Léon (1994) with Jean Reno, Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman (Quite an international cast and filmed in NYC, in English) was named The Professional or Leon: The Professional (without the accent) in English. If you except Atlantis (1991) that only casts dolphins  , he "only" did these five films with Gaumont before creating Europa Corp. (And there the trend continues with Jeanne d'Arc / The messenger - 1999) @8ballMax : Here is the movie poster for theaters upon opening week (The link is in my first post)  | | | | Last edited: by Blackflush |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Ahhh...but there's the rub. In the case of the DVD in this image, the DVD title would be "Le cinquième élément" but the Original Title field should have "The Fifth Element" as the original title Only if you can find it in the copyright notice or film credits.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Now I come to look at it, if you focus on the legal notice at the bottom of the movie poster, the title is "Le Cinquième Elément"... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was looking through my collection and I have a DVD from Belgium (I think, or it could be France, the EAN is 8-712609-072679) with the French title Jeanne d'Arc. I noticed that the title field in the profile doesn't match the cover, the cover actually says (in very small print) L'histoire de (then large) Jeanne d'Arc, and then in smaller print under it (The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc), which is also what the copyright notice on the back says. The original title field is blank. Should I update this, and if is so how?  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
Now I come to look at it, if you focus on the legal notice at the bottom of the movie poster, the title is "Le Cinquième Elément"... That's fine but we aren't profiling a movie poster . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
That's fine but we aren't profiling a movie poster . I agree but since the rules do not restrict the Original Title being on the disc cover, the question remains. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
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That's fine but we aren't profiling a movie poster .
I agree but since the rules do not restrict the Original Title being on the disc cover, the question remains. You're absolutely right. The Rules state to take the Original Title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's opening credits...not outside sources i.e., movie posters | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes but for French editions of American films, it is seldomly specified, for instance.
That is why most European (non English) Edition profiles include the American title despite it's absence on the Legal Notice or the credits.
So in my understanding of the rules that sentence does not really work for Foreign Films. | | | | Last edited: by Blackflush |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've read the whole thread and this one is pretty puzzling.
My first impression was to have the original title as "The Fifth Element" because the movie was originally filmed in English, so the title should also be in English
But, I also found that the film opened the Cannes Festival in 1997. Cannes festival is pretty good with foreign movies & titles. Like most festivals, they will take the title submitted by the distributor as the original movie title.
On their website archives, they have "Le cinquième élement" for the title.... Which I find as odd because I can barely imagine the movie premiere been dubbed in French or showing the original English version with a French title in the festival program.
Is it possible that the original English movie was titled "Le cinquième élement" or "Le cinquième élément v.o.a." in France' theatrical shows?
It's irrelevent to the problem... But in Quebec... Been closer to the american market, the movie was released in theater as The Fifth Element for the English langage and Le cinquième élément for the French dub, so the original title for us is The Fifth Element. | | | | Last edited: by tarantino |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | It was definetly released with French Audio from the opening in France.
I went on opening night to see it with a bunch a friends who DO NOT understand a word of English. |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
It was definetly released with French Audio from the opening in France.
I went on opening night to see it with a bunch a friends who DO NOT understand a word of English. Then my guess will be that Cannes premiered the French dubbing of the movie. It wasn't listed in the official selection for the competition, so I guess the festival goers don't mind the dubbing over the original voices. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tarantino: Quote:
Quoting Agilis78:
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It was definetly released with French Audio from the opening in France.
I went on opening night to see it with a bunch a friends who DO NOT understand a word of English.
Then my guess will be that Cannes premiered the French dubbing of the movie. It wasn't listed in the official selection for the competition, so I guess the festival goers don't mind the dubbing over the original voices. That brings up an interesting point. If the original premier was a French dub at the Cannes, doesn't that make it the original version per DVDP rules? Fistful of Dollars anyone? | | | | My Home Theater |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
[...] since this is a French film (we seem to agree on that point), I believe the following rules apply.
Contribution Rules:
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Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
If you transpose the rules to our case : An American DVD release for a film originally produced in France would have the English title in the Title field and the French title in the Original Title Field.
The rules tell you to use the French title, not the French language title, to enter into the original title field. And while the movie poster's translated the title into the french language for advertising reasons (and in accordance with the rigid French laws regarding the utilization of other languages than French), that does not change the title the movie had to begin with. Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
Quoting Konrad:
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The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets.
If that is the case I entirely agree but is it ? Since you are the one wanting to change the data, it's your job to provide sufficient documentation to convince the voters and screeners of the merit of your proposed change. In the case at hand, you have to document the French language title to be not only an alternative title for marketing the film to the French. From reading this thread, you've done a lot to support your case. My advise: sit back and watch what will happen. If it gets through, fine, if it doesn't, lock your title field and keep it local (which is, IMO, where this change belongs, as the original title of the movie is not French). | | | | Lutz |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree but the question at hands is what was the Original Title ? So far, I have tried to explain my point of view (which might well be wrong ) but it seems every time one matter is "sorted" another one pops up. Initially it wasn't a French film because it was filmed in English, then it just wasn't a French film, then it wasn't the release title in France, then it was an American cast (same goes for Léon), then it wasn't in the credits, then it wasn't on the cover, then the Subway exemple, and now was the film released in French or in English (still pending for Cannes)... I'm not trying to impose my view, I'm just trying to get to the "truth" in order to put the accurate and relevant info in the database. That is why I opened the discussion on the forum. As for the documentation, I try to provide it as new matters surface but I can't really plan on the next issue. If I take an example closer to you, Run Lola Run (or Lola rennt - 1998), what is the Original title ? even if the Legal notice and/or the credits doesn't mention it ? I guess you are right, I'll wait and see but I'm surprised such a subject was not sorted years back since The Fifth Element (US Local Title ) is, at least in France, considered as a must have for any Home-Cinema enthusiast. |
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