Have a look at RHo's comment - he hits the nail right on the head. And as before: you may be able to somehow justify this for yourself for Robert Klein, since it doesn't really cause you any specific problems. But let's have a look at a section of the cast list for the 1993 Ivan Reitman comedy 'Dave', then:



Here you see a large number of "Himself" entries that are shown reversed in comparison with the other cast members. But for nearly all of these people, this is their only "acting" credit in the Invelos database. Again, using your twisted logic that "Himself" is the actor name, that would mean that you would have to use "Himself" as a "common name" for each of those. After all: if it's someone's only credit, the way he's credited that time by definition is his "common name", right? That would leave you with a list of "Himself as Himself" entries without any actor names - doesn't this tell you you've picked the wrong path? Again, I understand why you're trying to do this, but it's just not what the "credited as" feature is meant for. You may not have run into problems with the Robert Klein example, but it's just short-sighted to think this approach can be used accross the board - as this 'Dave' example shows you. This abuse of the "credited as" feature just doesn't match with the other rules, resulting, for instance, in a number of "Himself as Himself" entries without actor names here. That tells you that it's wrong.

Again: look at the screenshot. Either you (correctly!) consider, say, "Ronald Brownstein" to be the guy's name, and you enter it into the "name" field, or you consider "Himself" to the be name, and enter that in the "name" field. In that case, "credited as" doesn't come into play, as this is his only credit in the DVD Profiler database: if you feel he's credited as "Himself" here, than by definition, that is his "common name" - there are no other credits for the guy. You cannot argue that "Ronald Brownstein" is the name he is commonly credited as when you don't agree that he's credited as such in his only acting credit. So once again: either you consider "Ronald Brownstein" to be the name, and then you put it into the approprate field, or you're going to have to list "Himself as Himself". I certainly know what I prefer, but there certainly is no compromise that says "Ronald Brownstein [Himself] as Ronald Brownstein". That may work with Robert Klein, but not here. The fact that your approach works only in a few specific cases, but not for quite a large number of others in itself tells you that you are wrong.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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As for the rare cases where Himself or Herself would be the common name...

They are not rare at all: 'Dave' alone has about twenty of those, and you'll find that it's actually quite common with these "himself" or "herself" credits. It's certainly not a rare exception. As for the rest: I couldn't disagree more, and I still strongly urge everyone to vote against such garbage. Let's not allow these few users to destroy the data beyond any form of usability!! I hope Ken will step in and settle this once and for all.

Well, you are wrong. It's obvious that the rules do not allow for this erratic behaviour which expressly hurts the CLT results for the people involved. As RHo said: this is exactly the difference between free form credits and a database. We're maintaining a cast database, and we have a place to put actor names, and a place to put role names. It really isn't more difficult than that. Again: you are abusing the "credited as" feature for something which it is not meant to handle: it's not for dealing with formatting issues such as this, but for dealing with name variants. I'll vote against this destructive behaviour whenever I see it, and I hope that anyone else with a little bit of common sense does the same. Furthermore, I hope that Ken steps in and puts and end to this.

Quoting Daddy DVD:

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I can easily prove that that name isn't really a name

If you're so sure "Himself" is not a name, why insist on entering in into the "name" field?!    Again, if you had your way, the CLT would return 0 entries for my earlier "Ronald Brownstein" example - that makes it impossible to maintain that Robert Browstein is the "most-credited form". Unless you agree that what's seen on-screen here is actually his name. Now if you do... then enter it into the appropriate field! You want to have it both ways, and now you're grasping at straws to try to justify it. Again: this is abusing the "credited as" feature for something for which it is not meant to be used - as is obvious from the problems that arise from it (including the negative effect on the CLT results).

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:

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I can easily prove that that name isn't really a name

If you're so sure "Himself" is not a name, why insist on entering in into the "name" field?! 

Easy, because it's not in the "right" column and it won't show the cast list exactly as credited.

Lets get one thing straight... I am in NO WAY submitting such in any type of abuse or is it in ANY WAY done as any type of destructive behavior. I am going by one thing... and one thing only... how I read the rules.

And you mention this as common sense. That is your common sense. Common sense is very subjective on where and how you were raised. to me... my common sense reads the lists of cast and characters and tells me in these cases Himself and herself is meant to be the names as they are in those lists. And I follow the rules as they read in such instances.

as for it hurting the CLT results I understand that but we still have what we have to deal with per the rules (which is what matters for contributions)... and already said we need an exception for it. Whether it is an exception to use the cast's real name when himself/herself comes up as the most commonly credited or if he says make the exception to switch the cast name and role name when first entering it (as you all say it should be)... it really don't matter to me. but either way there needs to be an exception added.

But you can believe in all my time with DVD Profiler I have only ever done contributions (and voting) per the rules as I understand them and/or per Ken's instructions. And that is the only way I will ever do contributions or voting.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

Quote:
Lets get one thing straight... I am in NO WAY submitting such in any type of abuse or is it in ANY WAY done as any type of destructive behavior.

Yes you are. I'm sorry, but I'm done with trying to be careful not stepping on anyone's toes on this subject. I consider any contribution that put "Himself" in the "credited as" field as destructtive behaviour, as every single contribution that does that actually removes a correct cast entry from the CLT results for the person involved. That diminishes the CLT results, and as such, is destructive. Now maybe you've never submitted one of these - in that case I wasn't talking to you. But if you have, than yes, I consider that destructive behaviour. If you don't like to be called out on that, then stop eliminating correct cast entries from the CLT (= destroying good data).

I can only say that luckely we agree on most things.