Quoting skipnet50:

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The only possible reawson I might throw a negative is your reference to fish which i find HIGHLY offensive. The Rule design may not be important to you, it obviously isn't because you always think you know more than you do. But there is a very specific plan to it, whether you like it or not, unicus, that hasn't changed.

Sorry Skip, I know exactly what I think I know.  Just because YOU had a specific plan in mind does not mean that Ken has the same plan.  As has been demonstrated on more than one occasion, you and Ken are not always on the same page.

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I realize that you support Rule of the Week and Rule of Whim, both of which are completely impractical .

Another lie, just like the one you told in the rule review forum.  I suggest you stop doing this. 

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Your opinions are NOT gospel and are NOT even close. They are quite simply...OPINIONS...and ill-informed ones at that.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about your opinions. 

Quoting skipnet50:

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@ North

I can't and won't speak for ken and what he was thinking about the Program. I can speak to the other areas involved. the deisner of the Rules is both highly educated and extremely well-informed vis-a-vis naming conventions . He has provided the answer for you, it easy to understand. If you don't like it my only response is...too bad. The answer was arrived afdter much consideration and debate on all the various aspects including the Far Eastern conventions. Now that we have an alias system this should not even be a question, yet I continue to see whining and great gnashing of teeth....get over it. The answer is in your hands and it lies within the alias system.

Skip

Well bully for the designer of the rules.  The problem is this "highly educated and extremely well-informed vis-a-vis naming conventions" person neglected to include it in the rules.  Since he didn't, it is nothing more than an OPINION.  As such, it is no better or worse than any other users opinion.  You are not Ken and this is not your program so please stop pretending that your opinion is any more important than anybody else's.

Quoting northbloke:

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Did you even read my post?
How are we currently meant to parse Chow Yun Fat's name in the program so that he's listed under the Cs where he belongs?
At the moment the only way is to parse him Yun Fat//Chow which I'm sure will be a very unpopular solution.
And I don't know who this all-knowing designer of the rules is, but he obviously didn't do a very good job judging from not only this topic, but all the other ones that deal with problems people have with the rules.
If there had been "much consideration and debate" about naming standards, why aren't they even mentioned in the rules?

North:

You are to list Chow Yun-Fat AS Credited (Credited As) PERIOD. Whatever adjustments beyond that are made through the Alias system or done LOCALLY. This is the way it was intended and this is the way it has always been despte all the carping and gnashing of teeth. I don't give a flip about cultural proclivities, the culture is that of the silver screen.

One more comment for Unicus:

You don't have the ability to figure ouit or understand what the design was about. You seem to pretend to speak fro Ken quite often howvere. My position has been the SAAME since the day i designed the plan with DanW's help. As credited meant then what it means today as does credited As. Now as many times as this has been discussed and i have expressed the same opinions, Ken has NEVER chosen to say anything contrary has he, and we all know that he has corrected me in ther past, so I suggest that your Opiniion is not even a giood hypothesis. It is based on wishful thinking, perhaps on your part but the history and the facts don't support you.


Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:

North:

You are to list Chow Yun-Fat AS Credited (Credited As) PERIOD. Whatever adjustments beyond that are made through the Alias system or done LOCALLY. This is the way it was intended and this is the way it has always been despte all the carping and gnashing of teeth. I don't give a flip about cultural proclivities, the culture is that of the silver screen.

Sorry Skip, but you DO NOT have the authority to make that statement.  I know you like to think you are something more, but you are a user just like the rest of us.  The only person who can make that statement is Ken or Gerri and I haven't seen them make it.

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One more comment for Unicus:

You don't have the ability to figure ouit or understand what the design was about. You seem to pretend to speak fro Ken quite often howvere. My position has been the SAAME since the day i designed the plan with DanW's help. As credited meant then what it means today as does credited As.

Oh please, 'credited as' wasn't even an issue back then.  You are just painting yourself into a smaller corner. 

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Now as many times as this has been discussed and i have expressed the same opinions, Ken has NEVER chosen to say anything contrary has he, and we all know that he has corrected me in ther past, so I suggest that your Opiniion is not even a giood hypothesis.

Going by that ligic, my opinion is just as correct as yours.  I mean, he has corrected me in the past as well.  Since he hasn't done so in this case I must be correct. 

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It is based on wishful thinking, perhaps on your part but the history and the facts don't support you.

Actually, the history and facts do support me.  Shall I share all your PMs where you told me that your participation in the rule process was as a facilitator and that most of the rules were written by the committee?  I can do that if you persist in this revisionist history.

Quoting skipnet50:

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Unicus of course, fails to remind you North, That you have the ultimate control over your local database where YOU write the rules and you can do anything you wish to. Unicus as nealy always is not intereseted in attempting to comprehend the concept, he is only interested in being disagreeable and argumentative which he does excel at.

I didn't remind him of that because this issue is about contributing to the main db.  But don't let the facts get in your way here. 

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I will repeat what I have said previously, there is no bow to ANY particular culture, nor will there be, the culture is based on the appearance of the data On Screen. It is absolutely the simplest concept in the world.

You can say it as many times as you want.  The fact remains this is a problem that will continue to come up as long as the rules are silent on the issue.  To believe otherwise is to stick you head in the sand.

I can currently think of two ways of dealing with this problem. Both involve a change to the program. I'll continue to use Chow Yun Fat as an example.

1) We parse the name as Yun Fat//Chow but we have a checkbox that displays the name as Chow Yun Fat without the need for "credited as".
Pluses: for the database it's more consistant: all the family names (east and west) are in the same field, as are the given names.
Minuses: it's a lot of work as nearly all his credits would have to be changed. It would also make it harder for infreqent users.

2) We parse the name as Chow/Yun/Fat but we have a checkbox that tells the program to sort this name using the first name, not the last name.
Pluses: a lot less work, we simply need to check the box and all profiles are correct.
Minuses: a lot more complicated programming-wise? Also, we end up with a mix of family and given names in the "last name" field etc.

I'm tending towards option 2 as an idea. Can anyone think of any other ways of doing it or any problems I haven't seen?

Quoting TheFly:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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You knowq what you think you know, but that does not mean that what you think you know is correct

But how do you know that what you think you know about whether he knows what he thinks he knows, and whether knowing that means that what he thinks he knows is correct, is correct? You know?

No.   

Quoting schizzzo:

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I would definitely prefer the 1st one. The Minus is not a real minus because now asian names are in different ways of parsing in the database. We must change a lot of profiles anyway. And we do not need a checkbox, we can use the "credit as" functionality, no software change is necessary. All we need to define is Yun-Fat or Yun Fat for the given name (and a little change to the rules  )

The problem with the 2nd one, parsing Chow/Yun/Fat isn't correct. "Yun" and "Fat" are two syllables of one name (you can also write Yun-Fat), or would you like to parse your name north/bloke// 

You are quite right - option 1 could be achieved with a rules change instead of a software change, but I think you underestimate the resistance of people who simply refuse to accept any change.

Also, the parsing of his name in option 2 isn't really a problem - it's simply the way most people, unfamiliar with his name, would parse it. Even if he was parsed Chow//Yun Fat we'd still have the same issue.

Edit: and how do you know it's not bloke//north?