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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Voting yes for bad data
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
Xbox Live: squeekyfoot
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 550
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Here is where I stand with some of this.  It depends on what is being contributed/fixed.

One example is a while back I noticed a bunch of my movies had actors that should have linked various profiles.  Did all the work and research and created the links with credited as.  Did the contributions and gave my notes and reasoning.  Some I had trouble with No votes.  Not because my changes where wrong, but because there were existing errors and some felt since I took the time to makes the corrections I worked on then I should fix all the errors.  I did make the corrections that were pointed out, but when I vote on what the person is presenting.  If someone makes a correction with Actor A that is what I am going to look at.  I am not going to vote no because something is wrong with Actor B because that is not what the person is trying to contribute.  Overviews are a little different because I see them as one item as a whole being contributed.
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Never seen Star Trek 2


If you watch only one ST movie, this would be the one.  My second favorite, among TOS movies, is 'The Voyage Home'.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I have a few of the later Star Trek movies... but none of the early ones yet.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I have a few of the later Star Trek movies... but none of the early ones yet.

Argyle Wallace: Did the priest give a poetic benediction? "The Lord bless thee and keep thee..."?
Young William: It was in Latin.
Argyle Wallace: You don't speak Latin? Well that is something we shall have to remedy, then, isn't it?

Meaning: Fill that gap!
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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LOL... yeah I will have to!
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:

One example is a while back I noticed a bunch of my movies had actors that should have linked various profiles.  Did all the work and research and created the links with credited as.  Did the contributions and gave my notes and reasoning.  Some I had trouble with No votes.  Not because my changes where wrong, but because there were existing errors

[...]

I wouldn't agree with those No votes. I think we should vote on the changes and new data submitted, not on any existing errors that the contributor did not fix.
Of course a contribution which fixes all the errors in a field adds more value than a partial correction, but I would vote Yes anyway as long as the changes are correct and per the Rules and add significant value to the database.

Quote:

If someone makes a correction with Actor A that is what I am going to look at.  I am not going to vote no because something is wrong with Actor B because that is not what the person is trying to contribute.


Exactly.


Quote:
Overviews are a little different because I see them as one item as a whole being contributed.


Hmm... I agree up to a point, on that. If I noticed some other minor errors that need correction in an Overview I would maybe PM the contributor or just submit corrections myself, but I don't think I would vote No just because of an existing wrong comma or suchlike. 
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantfalcon2099
Member Since: Dec 4, 2002
Registered: May 29, 2007
Canada Posts: 189
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My position is that bad data is just that: bad data.  I (we) do my (our) best to be as complete and accurate as possible when making contributions, BUT we are only human.  Mistakes do happen (not only during profiling, but during voting as well).

One thing that I do is keep a notebook beside my PC and keep track of all of my NO votes (and why I voted no in case only 1 or 2 things are wrong with the contribution) and if one of the DVD's that I have gets an update and it's also on my list of NO votes, then I approve the correct parts of the update and then resubmit with the correct info.  I must admit that this is not the most eloquent manner to do this, but it works.
Peter

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormwkirchner
Everybody down!
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 347
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Here is how I feel about contributing corrections.

If you are goiing to take the time to contribute a correction to a DVD then take the time to do it all. By that I mean do not just pick out a few words that you know are misspelled and fix them and leave other ones still wrong. I am not saying that you KNEW they were wrong, but when people vote and mention it, be kind enough to resubmit it with the corrections.

I got PM'd the other night because I had originally voted NO to a contribution because it still contained errors. I was told in the PM that I was wrong to vote that way because the new contributor did not make the original mistakes. He was fixing some that he saw and those are the ones I should be voting on. Not the entire overview ... just the words he corrected. I went back and changed my vote (which I had second thoughts about) and then after thinking about it more went and contributed the the corrections myself. I got NO votes that mentioned things that I had missed. WHY? I fixed some words that the other contributor missed. Why did mine not get voted on the same way?

I did not raise a fuss about it. I just went back and fixed the errors and resubmitted it. I had to do this 3 times and finally got all the mistakes fixed. Yes it takes time, but in the end it makes for a better database.

So, the bottom line in my eyes is that if you are going to correct something do it all ... and if you happen to miss something ... just fix the mistake and resubmit it.

Just my $0.02 worth ...

Mark
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVega
Registered: May 19, 2007
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United States Posts: 585
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Quoting mwkirchner:
Quote:
I went back and changed my vote (which I had second thoughts about) and then after thinking about it more went and contributed the the corrections myself. I got NO votes that mentioned things that I had missed. WHY? I fixed some words that the other contributor missed. Why did mine not get voted on the same way?


This was mainly me so I'll try to explain my reasoning for this particular case..    There's never enough room in the vote comments to explain.   

Along with some others here, I'm of the opinion that we should be voting on what the person changed, not what we think they should have changed.  They didn't make the original errors, so why vote No against a contribution that is trying to correct some of those errors.  This is where I see voting Yes but leaving a comment mentioning the other spotted errors comes in handy.  Or even PMing the submitter and pointing out they missed some things so they can edit their profile and resubmit.

The other alternative, since if we're voting on the submission then obviously we own the same movie, is to submit the fixes that they missed ourselves.  This is usually okay for Cast/Crew fixes or other small field updates.  But it presents a problem when the field being updated is just one big giant field, like the Overview or the Easter Eggs.

So, here's our situation.  The first contribution by Person A fixed 4 misspellings in the Easter Eggs but missed several others.  A day later a second submission is made to the Easter Eggs by Person Z that fixes everything Person A missed, but doesn't fix the 3 of the 4 misspellings Person A did.  Both contributions will be in the system for 3-4 days while they get voted on.  Now, here's why I voted No on Person Z's submission.  If Person A's submissions gets Accepted then their misspellings are corrected in the online DB.  Person Z's submission still contains the original misspellings, but has the other corrections.  So the next day when Person Z's submission is Accepted, it corrects the other misspellings but it puts back into the online DB the original misspellings that Person A corrected.

So, that is why I could vote Yes for the original submisson but had no choice but to vote No for the second submission.  If Person Z's submission had been made all by itself, only correcting some of the mistakes, then I would have easily voted Yes for it just like the other.  When there's two submissions up for the same profile at the same time, you have to be careful with the order they're going to get processed.

I hope that made sense.  For what it's worth, I agree that if you're going to correct something, correct all of it.  If you're going to submit an update, follow through with it, and check on the votes for comments.  You never what you might have missed and someone else may catch and you can fix it and resubmit.  But as voters, all we can really vote on is the changes that are being submitted.  Otherwise, what's next?  If someone fixes some Overview typos and the current cover scans happen to be crappy are we going to vote No because they should have fixed the cover scans while they were at it?  We're all just trying to make the database better. 
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - Douglas Bader
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Posts: 3,004
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I vote yes on anything that's an overall improvement and doesn't change correct data to bad.  If they add new data which isn't 100% correct but there was previously no data at all or leave one thing wrong but fix another, I let it through.  I add a note to my yes vote to point out anything wrong.
 Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
Missed again!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I agree with Pete and Skip.  Wrong is wrong.  If I see something wrong, it will get a 'no' vote.


Same here
It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting schultzy:
Quote:

One example is a while back I noticed a bunch of my movies had actors that should have linked various profiles.  Did all the work and research and created the links with credited as.  Did the contributions and gave my notes and reasoning.  Some I had trouble with No votes.  Not because my changes where wrong, but because there were existing errors
I wouldn't agree with those No votes. I think we should vote on the changes and new data submitted, not on any existing errors that the contributor did not fix.
Of course a contribution which fixes all the errors in a field adds more value than a partial correction, but I would vote Yes anyway as long as the changes are correct and per the Rules and add significant value to the database.

I completely agree!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Everybody who says, bad data is bad data, should think about the consequences of your no votes. Let's assume that you vote no on a contribution with some valid new data but one error which has been there before is not corrected. The contributor refuses to correct the error for whatever reason. As a consequence the contribution is declined. The result is a profile which still features the error but is missing some valid data.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As has been said several times already.... the no vote is to let both the contributor and the screener know there is something wrong... I myself have seen several times that a contribution with a valid no vote still gets put through because of all the correct data makes it worth it to them. So the screeners do take everything into account... not just the votes.

So the no vote(s) do not mean it will get declined... it just does what it is supposed to do... show when there is a problem. From there the screener makes a decision if it is worth letting it go through anyway or not.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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also it should warn the contributer to adjust his contribution accordingly to have it pass.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
TaH pagh taHbe'!
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Everybody who says, bad data is bad data, should think about the consequences of your no votes. Let's assume that you vote no on a contribution with some valid new data but one error which has been there before is not corrected. The contributor refuses to correct the error for whatever reason. As a consequence the contribution is declined. The result is a profile which still features the error but is missing some valid data.


ACK, a question of commensurability. If I have to vote for a full audit profile containing a minor error, I would either PM the contributor or vote YES including a comment in the notes.

The advantage of the contribution system is that we can contribute the data successive.
I'ts not a question of all or nothing.

IIRC Gerri approved a profile with an existing error in the title due to the fact that the contributor submittet a full audit with cast and crew. IMHO this was a clear hint how to apply the rules!
Thorsten
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