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Quotes in Original Title Field
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Of course, Rick because you are not intrersted in discussion and debate, but then on the other hand your opinion has no weight whatsoever because you slectively participate.


Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
My interpretation (and yes, that's what it is) of what Ken has ruled is that he does not consider the quotes to be part of the title. So, if they're not part of the title, then there's no reason that they should be included in the Original Title field, either. But that's just my take on it...



That isn't what he said though, is it?  Don't include quotes ONLY IF they are around the ENTIRE TITLE.  Tad bit of a difference there, eh?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,777
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I thought embedded quotes were clearly understood to be included.  I can't think of any titles right now that have them, but it's not a stretch to conceive of a title that might contain them.  I'm sure somebody will come up with an obvious example that's just escaping me right now.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDariusKyrak
Fishcakes.. and why not?
Registered: March 23, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 317
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Quoting DariusKyrak:
Quote:
I keep reading about this "accurate data", but have yet to see a definition of what makes it accurate. The Birds vs. 'The Birds' - which is accurate and WHY?

Also, why is it so important that it is accurate? Surely it's more important that it is of use to as many people as possible?


I've seen an accusation that people are more interested in manipulation of various forms than debating. Well, I've seen the claim in this thread that 'accuracy' should be the goal and and implication that this thread is attempting to undermine it / circumvent it / whatever.

Well, I made a counter point which I (partially) quoted above. You want to debate, let's debate!

Stuart
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,672
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
My interpretation (and yes, that's what it is) of what Ken has ruled is that he does not consider the quotes to be part of the title. So, if they're not part of the title, then there's no reason that they should be included in the Original Title field, either. But that's just my take on it...



That isn't what he said though, is it?  Don't include quotes ONLY IF they are around the ENTIRE TITLE.  Tad bit of a difference there, eh?

DUH!

The whole point was that the same rules should apply. I didn't think I would have to quote Ken in verbatim for that point to get across.

Of course we shouldn't remove the quotes if they are around only a part of the title. The only such that I can think of offhand would be "X" - The Man with the X-Ray Eyes. Those quotes belong in the title field (and would of course also belong in the original title field, if the DVD title had been different).
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Darius:

The specific point you bring up would relate to what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy, This has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. "The Birds" would be based on FACTUAL data that is available On Screen, On Cover(Rules) or both. The Birds would be based either on the fiction that it is called by everybody The Birds, why is this a fiction, we call a Jaguar a Jag but that does not change the FACTUAL name of the car, it still remains a Jaguar. "The Birds" would also be a FACTUAL name which can be based on one's own eyesight. The other possiibility to support the The Birds would be the actual Copyrighted title which is NOT fiction and can be verified in most instances, in this case the US Copyright lists The Birds NOT "The Birds". Various forms of real data can be debated, but FICTIONAL data based on someone's opinion cannot and does not belong in the discussion...HAL

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
It's not midnitoil, but at the same time ew have to capture the correct data somewhere, because some users want it. Like you I have my reference database locked down, and have for years, nothing gets in or out of it, it is built to my specs. Unfortunately we have users who want to impose their will on everyone, they want the data pre-packaged in a form that is to their specs and they don't have to do anything to it, these people also do not Contribute anything of their own, and they don't want to have to edit their own data.

I have told this story before, two years ago, we had concluded that the Sound section would not work and it was removed from the beta. The majority of the rules team were very happy about that including myself. But two users weren't and howled, they wanted the data, what right did we have to tell them they couldn't have it, so we had them come up with a workable plan, so that the data could be usable, they did, the plan was not perfect but it works. Unfortunately we have far too many users that do not share my attitude towards such things.

Skip


Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.............
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDariusKyrak
Fishcakes.. and why not?
Registered: March 23, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 317
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Darius:

The specific point you bring up would relate to what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy, This has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. "The Birds" would be based on FACTUAL data that is available On Screen, On Cover(Rules) or both. The Birds would be based either on the fiction that it is called by everybody The Birds, why is this a fiction, we call a Jaguar a Jag but that does not change the FACTUAL name of the car, it still remains a Jaguar. "The Birds" would also be a FACTUAL name which can be based on one's own eyesight. The other possiibility to support the The Birds would be the actual Copyrighted title which is NOT fiction and can be verified in most instances, in this case the US Copyright lists The Birds NOT "The Birds". Various forms of real data can be debated, but FICTIONAL data based on someone's opinion cannot and does not belong in the discussion...HAL

Skip


Then if I read that right, the example of 'The Birds' vs The Birds is inconclusive as to what is 'accurate', because you can pull the title with quotes from some official sources (cover and title-screen) and without quotes from another official source. In other words, we've failed to answer the question of 'which is accurate', and neither has the 'why' been addressed.

Also, the question of 'why is accuracy more important than usability' is still unanswered.

If defining 'accurate' is so difficult and is still ambiguous (as you imply with "what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy... has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere"), then surely 'accuracy' (at this point) is a meaningless concept. Which again, brings us back to the point of why is it so important?

Stuart
This is a sig... ... ... yay...

Don't understand? Maybe DVDProfilerWiki.org does!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Darius:

The specific point you bring up would relate to what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy, This has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. "The Birds" would be based on FACTUAL data that is available On Screen, On Cover(Rules) or both. The Birds would be based either on the fiction that it is called by everybody The Birds, why is this a fiction, we call a Jaguar a Jag but that does not change the FACTUAL name of the car, it still remains a Jaguar. "The Birds" would also be a FACTUAL name which can be based on one's own eyesight. The other possiibility to support the The Birds would be the actual Copyrighted title which is NOT fiction and can be verified in most instances, in this case the US Copyright lists The Birds NOT "The Birds". Various forms of real data can be debated, but FICTIONAL data based on someone's opinion cannot and does not belong in the discussion...HAL

Skip


Blah, blah, blah, blah blah...........
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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so... has 'The Birds' surpassed H/B/C as the most discussed topic yet? 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,982
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.............


This is not the 8ballMax quote?

I had read the HD/BR thread last night ... I have no life 

Edit to add that I've found in this thread the most annoying person that I've read in my life
 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting DariusKyrak:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Darius:

The specific point you bring up would relate to what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy, This has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. "The Birds" would be based on FACTUAL data that is available On Screen, On Cover(Rules) or both. The Birds would be based either on the fiction that it is called by everybody The Birds, why is this a fiction, we call a Jaguar a Jag but that does not change the FACTUAL name of the car, it still remains a Jaguar. "The Birds" would also be a FACTUAL name which can be based on one's own eyesight. The other possiibility to support the The Birds would be the actual Copyrighted title which is NOT fiction and can be verified in most instances, in this case the US Copyright lists The Birds NOT "The Birds". Various forms of real data can be debated, but FICTIONAL data based on someone's opinion cannot and does not belong in the discussion...HAL

Skip


Then if I read that right, the example of 'The Birds' vs The Birds is inconclusive as to what is 'accurate', because you can pull the title with quotes from some official sources (cover and title-screen) and without quotes from another official source. In other words, we've failed to answer the question of 'which is accurate', and neither has the 'why' been addressed.

Also, the question of 'why is accuracy more important than usability' is still unanswered.

If defining 'accurate' is so difficult and is still ambiguous (as you imply with "what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy... has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere"), then surely 'accuracy' (at this point) is a meaningless concept. Which again, brings us back to the point of why is it so important?

Stuart


The Title is The Birds, without quotes...according to the copyright data.

Some only wish to apply this logic (Ken's logic, BTW) to the "Title" field and an entirely different set of logic to the "Original Title" field.

Go figure!
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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What's this film "The Birds" people keep going on about?
Is it somehow related to "Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds"?



sorry, couldn't resist
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting DariusKyrak:
Quote:
Then if I read that right, the example of 'The Birds' vs The Birds is inconclusive as to what is 'accurate', because you can pull the title with quotes from some official sources (cover and title-screen) and without quotes from another official source. In other words, we've failed to answer the question of 'which is accurate', and neither has the 'why' been addressed.

Also, the question of 'why is accuracy more important than usability' is still unanswered.

If defining 'accurate' is so difficult and is still ambiguous (as you imply with "what yardstick you want to use to determine accuracy... has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere"), then surely 'accuracy' (at this point) is a meaningless concept. Which again, brings us back to the point of why is it so important?

The Birds is not enclosed in quotes on-screen and is therefore of no relevance to the topic of this thread...which is whether titles which appear on-screen surrounded by quotes should be entered as such in the original title field.

The issue with The Birds is whether it's possessory credit (Alfred Hitchcock's) is part of the title. For the versions discussed so far in the forum, according to the new updated rules, the answer is: The title is just The Birds. Whether that's accurate based on any other lookup that one might choose to do is irrelevant since the current rule provides the answer.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Title is The Birds, without quotes...according to the copyright data.

And on-screen as well. The Birds has nothing to do with the topic of this thread!
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
 Last edited: by m.cellophane
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The Title is The Birds, without quotes...according to the copyright data.

And on-screen as well. The Birds has nothing to do with the topic of this thread!



True enough!
Hal
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