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Moderation Trial
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
In think Godwin's Law has just received a new (but unneeded) variation.  Sorry.


Oh, that is amazing! 
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantMarEll
Registered: June 9, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,208
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Well... I don't know the situation... but the only thing I could possibly think of is...

Was this back when the red arrows effected your stars? (now all they do is let mods know of the posts)...


No, I lost my star after the red stars were to call moderators. I never saw a star other than green ones.

I did not call the poster a name. I called the poster's behavior unjust. I stand by that. If you make racist statements, I will state that I believe you've made racist statements and that your behavior is inappropriate. The day after I did this, I lost my star.


I won't be reading the remaining pages so I'm not sure if you've already solved this, but doesn't a persons reputation return to zero over time?  I don't really pay much attention to the reputation system but it is my understanding that a star takes a steady stream of greenies to be maintained.

Could it be that by coincidence your rep zero'd around the same that you made the post?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 5,635
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As I stated, I've never had fewer than 9 posts with green arrows (90 days they're kept, as I recall), I currently have around 20, some with as many as five green arrows. You could be right, but it seems very coincidental. I suppose I should shrug and say c'est la vie... but I work hard to have a good reputation.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
TaH pagh taHbe'!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 17,804
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Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
[...] but I work hard to have a good reputation.

Stars or not - you already have a good reputation. I don't understand the reputation system though...
Thorsten
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting MarEll:
Quote:
I won't be reading the remaining pages so I'm not sure if you've already solved this, but doesn't a persons reputation return to zero over time?  I don't really pay much attention to the reputation system but it is my understanding that a star takes a steady stream of greenies to be maintained.

Could it be that by coincidence your rep zero'd around the same that you made the post?


I don't think it works like that. I never posted here for almost a year, but I never lost my star.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
Reputation: High Rating
Belgium Posts: 1,580
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
On a separate note, let's clear up the timeline a bit on the topic at hand.  We made a ruling on May 12th that said we would begin considering it a rule violation to bring vote conflicts to the forum.  On the first violation of this, we decided to issue a warning.
Thanks for clearing that up, Ken. However, I see you still haven't answered my questions:

1. Since when has the policy been to first warn before banning? I was banned on the spot due to postings in this thread, which contained no foul language or name-calling from my part:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=421218&PageNum=11

2. Do you automatically remove all stars from people who are banned, even if it's their first offense?

3. Where do you draw the line? In the above thread, I had only 3 posts moderated, merely for being a bit off topic. Another users resorted to namecalling (saying other users had a 'bird brain'), had a lot more posts moderated but was not banned. How do you measure when a user should be banned?

4. Finally, do you apply different standards depending on the user and his history with Invelos/Intervocative?

Please Ken, I'd like to hear a CLEAR AND HONEST answer to the above questions, which I feel I am rightfully asking considering the things that have happened since I left the forums (and soon will be leaving again after I get my answer). Your silence in this matter should actually be proof enough of Invelos' unfair treatment of other users and brown-nosing of one particular user, but I'd like to give you one more chance to explain yourself before I completely withdraw from Invelos.
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 Last edited: by Taro
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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It is clearly evident to the most casual of users that different people are treated differently here.

Like bad behavior being accepted on these forums, this is something that I had accepted thus far, but I don't think I care to any longer.
Hal
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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My silence is proof only of our policy to not discuss moderation of individual users in the forums. 

However, since you specifically requested, I'll go into what I can.

We don't ban users simply for going off topic.  I don't know the specifics of your case, but a support ticket or use of the contact us link at the bottom of the page at the time would likely have pointed you to the cause.

The act of restricting an account resets the reputation counter, but it should be automatically restored when the restriction is removed.  If it wasn't, a support ticket would have cleared it up. 

Aside from this artifact of the temp ban, moderators have absolutely no access to user's reputation scores.

Finally, we absolutely do consider the account history when handling moderation.  For instance, an free account user with 5 posts of which all 5 are spam will receive a permanent account ban without warning.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
TaH pagh taHbe'!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 17,804
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
[...]

The act of restricting an account resets the reputation counter, but it should be automatically restored when the restriction is removed.  If it wasn't, a support ticket would have cleared it up. 

Aside from this artifact of the temp ban, moderators have absolutely no access to user's reputation scores.

[...]

Does this mean you will restore the reputation stars of the affected users on request?
Thorsten
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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I'd be happy to investigate the case of anyone who received a temp ban and at the end of the ban did not have the same number of stars as they had at the beginning.

I retested this just now and it is functioning correctly. It's possible there was a window of time where it did not, but at the moment it's working as designed.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
 Last edited: by Ken Cole
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
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Belgium Posts: 1,580
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I'd like to believe, Ken, I really do ... but Invelos' past and current actions contradict your post

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
We don't ban users simply for going off topic.  I don't know the specifics of your case, but a support ticket or use of the contact us link at the bottom of the page at the time would likely have pointed you to the cause.

And yet ... I was banned for going off topic. Although I have a very strong feeling one user in particular (we ALL know who it is) complained to Invelos because he had been harassing me since the first post I made in these forums. And that is probably the reason I got banned. I tried getting a straight answer for the real reason of my ban, in the forum as well as by PM'ing you at the time but all I got was standard replies "we don't discuss moderation".

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The act of restricting an account resets the reputation counter, but it should be automatically restored when the restriction is removed.  If it wasn't, a support ticket would have cleared it up.
So, you are telling me:
1. Me getting banned in the first place, was a fluke (since it was due to going off topic)
2. Me not getting my reputation back was a fluke or bug
3. the other user not getting banned was a bug
That's asking me to believe a lot on faith alone ... really a lot!

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Aside from this artifact of the temp ban, moderators have absolutely no access to user's reputation scores.

OK, thanks for answering.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Finally, we absolutely do consider the account history when handling moderation.  For instance, an free account user with 5 posts of which all 5 are spam will receive a permanent account ban without warning.
And yet I often see one particular user having 10+ posts moderated on a daily basis, without a ban being issued. Some of those posts are very offensive, going as far as to being racist (Nazi French anyone?), belittling (people with bird brains) and uncalled aggressiveness or feigning being insulted. You all know it but don't have the guts to do something about it (excuse the language).

This forum has turned into the private little play garden of one bully, with the consent of the administrators and that's why I don't want to be a part of it anymore. It's sad that the website owners don't have the decency to at least openly admit it. I had high hopes of being a productive member when I first joined, but it has turned into a shattered dream. I'm sorry, but I just can't stomach double standards.

Still, thanks for taking the time to answer the questions.
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 Last edited: by Taro
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 5,635
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
My silence is proof only of our policy to not discuss moderation of individual users in the forums. 

However, since you specifically requested, I'll go into what I can.

...

Aside from this artifact of the temp ban, moderators have absolutely no access to user's reputation scores.

Finally, we absolutely do consider the account history when handling moderation.  For instance, an free account user with 5 posts of which all 5 are spam will receive a permanent account ban without warning.


The bold is mine. If moderators have no access to my reputation score, then either non-moderators do or the owners/operators do. If my star was removed for my objecting to racist statements which were allowed to be unmoderated, what does that say about those who do have access to my reputation?

As far as I know, I never received any banning. The star simply went away after I objected to obviously racist comments by other users.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,282
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For a long time, the red arrows affected reputation down, as the green affected it up.  The red could absolutely cause the score to fall below the threshold of a star.

That's no longer the case.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,656
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Finally, we absolutely do consider the account history when handling moderation.  For instance, an free account user with 5 posts of which all 5 are spam will receive a permanent account ban without warning.


It doesn't seem that goes the other way, though. Meaning, it's obvious to many people that someone with a history of post moderation and being the center of about every damn argument is handled differently than everyone else.

Yes, it's important to take into account history when dealing with spammers, but it's sure as heck just as important to take it into consideration when dealing with someone who is constantly moderated, too.

Right now, it just doesn't seem that way.

The impression is to me (and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one) that one person gets to say and do what they please, rest of the forum and forum policy be damned. And Invelos really doesn't care enough to do anything about it.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
 Last edited: by Alien Redrum
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 5,635
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So two anti-racist posts I made, each with many green arrows, and only one red arrow each lost me my star? So certain people's red arrows count more than many other peoples' green arrows?

This is disturbing.

Unless of course that whoever reviews the post and the arrows and gives and removes stars gets a personal say in how much influence each has. Which means the person who removed my star liked the racism, and disliked my commenting on it.

This is also disturbing.

It seems that this forum condones overt racism, and condemns those who object to it.

Or is there an explanation I am missing?
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
 Last edited: by VibroCount
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
TaH pagh taHbe'!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 17,804
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Ken, thank you for clarification!

Don't you think it would be a generous gesture to restore the stars of the referring users without any further investigations?

Please keep in mind that we are a very special club of dvd addicts who should hold together! 
Thorsten
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