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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Update actors with year of birth |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 17, 2007 | | Posts: 28 |
| | Posted: | | | | Reaction from Reusla on my "No"-vote: Quoting Reusla: Quote:
As you prove with the rule you copied in your mail, it clearly says : "It is generally not necessary to add birth year for actors....", which means it's not forbidden....
But since more people are complaining about having a complete cast database I'll refrain from sharing this stuff with the outside world, so hope that eases your mind.... He's actually right.... these rules are a bit vague. If you say: Use only in case of multiple people with the same name... that should be much clearer. | | | | Life's like a movie, write your own ending. | | | | Last edited: by charleybaak |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | A little patience from him (or anyone else) would help. The new features just went live less than 2 weeks ago. It will take a little bit to get the features as well as the rules sorted out IMO I hate to see the loss of yet another contributor though  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | I say we collect all we can. It's not hurting anything. So if someone went to the trouble to collect it all, we should accept it. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would recommend that the burden of proof should be low on an initial birth year contribution. What's most important is that there be a differentiation between actors/crew. If someone later can prove the initial birth year to be inaccurate, proof and documentation would be more important. We need to strike a balance between accuracy on the one hand and the willingness of users to go to the trouble to contribute at all on the other hand. Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
I say we collect all we can. It's not hurting anything. So if someone went to the trouble to collect it all, we should accept it. Initially I thought just doing them on an as-needed basis would be best, but I'm coming around to your point of view. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | I will ALWAYS vote NO to the unnecessary addtion of the Birth Year. The Rules state "Use the birth year to differentiate between two actors with the same name." If you add a birth year to an actor you should: 1: Justify the addtion of the Birth Year, ie, what two actors are being differentiated John Smith in "Friendly Persuasion (1956)": Birth Year 1931 John Smith in "My Name is Joe (1998): Birth Year unknown 2: State your source for the Birth Year with at least two verifiable sources. This of course is just my opinion  . If Ken & Gerri decide that the Birth Year can be added to an entire cast list then so be it. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with 8Ball. Ken & Gerri have made a very clear statement on this topic, I will keep my opinion to myself, but until Ken & Gerri make a statement that is different, then we have what we have. My opinion at this point is completely irrelevant, the only thing that is imporatnt ios wqhat Ken & Gerri said.
Rick:
I don't want to see a Contributor stop, but I also don't want the Contributor to FLAGRANTLY go against what Ken & Gerri said. So...if that means a user gets his feelings hurt and he decides not to play , I don't view that as our loss, I know that's harsh but as I said Ken & gerri have made a public statement, the only ones that can change it is Ken & Gerri.
This next part does not necessarily reflect my opinion. We are not trying emulate or duplicate another site, you can pick any one you wish, the Birth Year was never thought of as a piece of data for every person in the Db. It was come up with (from Hal) as a solution to the problem that was seen relative to One Name/Many People, since we were not supposed to use a well known Roman Numeral system per Ken. So far Ken & Gerri's statement backs up that premise, all we can do now is wait and see.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I agree with 8Ball. Ken & Gerri have made a very clear statement on this topic, I will keep my opinion to myself, but until Ken & Gerri make a statement that is different, then we have what we have. My opinion at this point is completely irrelevant, the only thing that is imporatnt ios wqhat Ken & Gerri said.
Rick:
I don't want to see a Contributor stop, but I also don't want the Contributor to FLAGRANTLY go against what Ken & Gerri said. So................
Skip But the problem is (at least as I see it) Ken and Gerri did not make a very clear statement. They made a very vague statement. The user himself interprets the rules this way" Quote:
"It is generally not necessary to add birth year for actors....", which means it's not forbidden.... He is absolutely right in his interpretation. It is not forbidden, it just says it is not necessary to add. (Perhaps I've been hanging out with Unicus a bit too much lately  ) I am not advocating adding the DOB to the actors. Just the opposite. IMO (as I said above) we should wait till the IS some clear direction. But to say the statement is clear is not the case. It may be clear to you (and Max) but there sure seems to be a group that it is not clear to. BTW - It has been almost enjoyable being able to simply discuss things with you again Skip. Thanks for the effort. It is noticed and appreciated (by me anyway). Keep this up and the PM blocks may come off soon (And yes, I;m sure it goes both ways ) EDIT: No fair editing you post while I am replying  | | | | Last edited: by lyonsden5 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rick:
They also spelled out quite clearly it's intent, that was to be used between to actors of the same name.
Using the same sentence, means I am not required to worry about it. But since they spelled out what their thinking was, Optional throws it into personal preference, which ALWAYS is local.
Again all we can do is wait. The opinion has been aired, we know that Ken & gerri are much more actively reading the forums, so I thin beating this to death the way we like to do is simply fruitless. Just sit back and wait.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Easy to create your interpretaion of things when you don't view the complete context.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
I say we collect all we can. It's not hurting anything. So if someone went to the trouble to collect it all, we should accept it. Here's the problem with this approach. I have no BYs in my data base, therefore the Common Name for Tom Cruise for all of my Tom Cruise movies is "Tom Cruise". Someone decides to change it in their local data base and use "Tom Cruise 1962" and contribute several profiles this way including 'War of the Worlds'. I decide to go out and buy 'War of the Worlds' and I download the recently updated profile with "Tom Cruise 1962" in the cast list. Not only will that now not link to the rest of my Tom Cruise movies, but I have to make a decision. Do I change the new profile's Common Name back to 'Tom Cruise' or do I change ALL my other profiles with Tom Cruise in them to "Tom Cruise 1962". I must do one or the other to link them all together. If I use the first approach, then I have to remember to "fix it" every time I download a new profile with "Tom Cruise 1962" in it. In the meantime Tom Cruise is in my actor database both ways, unlinked Multiply that by thousands of actors times thousands of profiles. Maintaining this in your local database will be a nightmare. I think the Rule needs to be written to say ONLY use BY when you have two actors with the same name and the (optional) should be changed too. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I would recommend that the burden of proof should be low on an initial birth year contribution. What's most important is that there be a differentiation between actors/crew. If someone later can prove the initial birth year to be inaccurate, proof and documentation would be more important.
We need to strike a balance between accuracy on the one hand and the willingness of users to go to the trouble to contribute at all on the other hand.
Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
I say we collect all we can. It's not hurting anything. So if someone went to the trouble to collect it all, we should accept it.
Initially I thought just doing them on an as-needed basis would be best, but I'm coming around to your point of view. Once again, we really don't want to be ping-ponging this. Every time it gets changed will mean that local linking will have to be repaired for all of the profiles that have itthe old way! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well summed up, hal. As noted this was not intended to be just some piece of data, it was to solve a problem.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I would recommend that the burden of proof should be low on an initial birth year contribution. What's most important is that there be a differentiation between actors/crew. If someone later can prove the initial birth year to be inaccurate, proof and documentation would be more important.
We need to strike a balance between accuracy on the one hand and the willingness of users to go to the trouble to contribute at all on the other hand.
Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
I say we collect all we can. It's not hurting anything. So if someone went to the trouble to collect it all, we should accept it.
Initially I thought just doing them on an as-needed basis would be best, but I'm coming around to your point of view.
Once again, we really don't want to be ping-ponging this. Every time it gets changed will mean that local linking will have to be repaired for all of the profiles that have itthe old way! No ping ponging. Input it once. It's probably right. If it's wrong and can be documented as such, change it. No hellfire and dalmatians. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, I agree, that it would probably be correct the first time.
I'm just saying, I think we'd be wise to avoid BY as much as possible so that we aren't in a constant maintenance mode trying to re-link actor names in our local db. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 350 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Not only will that now not link to the rest of my Tom Cruise movies, but I have to make a decision. Do I change the new profile's Common Name back to 'Tom Cruise' or do I change ALL my other profiles with Tom Cruise in them to "Tom Cruise 1962". I must do one or the other to link them all together. If I use the first approach, then I have to remember to "fix it" every time I download a new profile with "Tom Cruise 1962" in it. No, you change the new profile to "Tom Cruise" to match your common name, then change _your_ common name to "Tom Cruise 1962" to match the master common name so that you continue to reap the benefits of all the new TV movies that keep cropping up. If you don't always keep your common name and the master common name synchronized, then linking breaks as you described anyway. | | | | -fred |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
But the problem is (at least as I see it) Ken and Gerri did not make a very clear statement. They made a very vague statement. Amateurs  As for: Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
The Rules state "Use the birth year to differentiate between two actors with the same name." We should keep in mind that this is a brand new field, less than 2 weeks old. Yes, the rules state that (I'm assuming that's a direct quote). But that new data field hasn't been field tested so to speak. As for Hal's Tom Cruise argument, I will admit that you have a point. At the same time, if every actor had the birth year entered, then your whole example falls apart. I'm sure Skip wouldn't mind adding birth years to everyone.  Anyway, just some random thoughts. I've not really played with the field enough yet to have a strong opinion one way or another. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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