Quoting surfeur51:

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Interesting... can you develop ? For example, I made those proposals to avoid some useless variants:

- use maiden name for actresses who use both married and maiden name.
- for Asian names, always put family name in last name field
- for actors using both complete middle name and just initial, or no middle name, always use complete middle name
-...

Can you explain how those rules changes would make things worse ? How can that be worse then some automatic changes as Jr./,Jr.  which were implemented by Ken himself ?

Can you explain how those rule changes would make things better?

I don't know that those changes would make thing worse, but I don't see how they make things any better.  In all three cases you have chosen an arbitrary standard.  While the CLT is far from perfect, it is, at least, a standard based on something. 

Quoting emmeli:

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Quoting Scooter1836:

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Quoting emmeli:

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Quoting mitchg:

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Quoting emmeli:

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... and we build next faulty profiles because this clt result is wrong.

the result can only be good as the records are and which are not properly. so it is not possible to assign the right person.

CLT after closer look (counting only the correct profiles)
If you say it should be Chris Patrick Simpson for 50 Dead Men Walking then these are the results
Chris Simpson: 1 title - 24 profiles
Chris Patrick Simpson: 1 title - 3 profiles (even if you count the other profiles here it's still 1 title - 11 profiles)
Chris Patrick-Simpson: 0 titles - 0 profiles

The common name is Chris Simpson and you will have to add the BY to distinguish him from the editor and the singer.

Chris Simpson Actor >> BY = 1979
Chris Simpson Editor >> BY = ??
Chris Simpson Singer >> BY = ??

No! 1:1 for Chris Simpson vs Chris Patrick Simpson. and Chris Patrick Simpson is closer to the real name. a BY for Chris Simpson does not include Chris Patrick Simpson. a common name for him can you not find. we have 1:1. but this is not my rules.

As per Ken's clarifications the common name is based on title count, and if the title counts match then the tie breaker is profile count.

which is where? I can not find it in the contribution rules. the only things are (per rules)

It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT. If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required.

The inclusion of CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired but not required. Note: In the case of uncertainty, leaving this out may cause the contribution to be declined.

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575

In that thread is a combined compilation of clarifications made by Invelos.

Quoting emmeli:

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thanks. i got the right statement from Ken.

The bottom line is simple - we're after the most commonly credited name.  As in the original post, and in this post, the best solution is to correct the incorrect profiles so the CLT reflects the most commonly credited name.

I think that will happen soon.

This will not solve the issue with this name as, unless I missed something, he only has two films in the database, each with a different name, so the count will still be 1:1.

At that point you can leave it, until a third credit is entered, or use profile count to determine a winner.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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While the CLT is far from perfect, it is, at least, a standard based on something.

A standard that can change with each new movie is not a standard... 

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting TheMadMartian:

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While the CLT is far from perfect, it is, at least, a standard based on something.

A standard that can change with each new movie is not a standard... 

The standard is not changing, the resulting name based on the standard is.  The standard is not the name, but how the name is determined.

Quoting Scooter1836:

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The standard is not changing, the resulting name based on the standard is.  The standard is not the name, but how the name is determined.

You are right, my sentence was not correct . I should have written :
A standard that can give changing results for the same request is not a standard. 

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:


If you don't agree with the rules and have your own preferences and ideas on how to handle datafields this is absolutely no problem. You just have to keep the data local and will (most likely) have to do most of the work by (and for) yourself.

I do this for about a month now and have to admit that working on profiles has become a whole lot easier. Best of all: I don't have to care anymore about the (IMO partially absurd) rule-interpretations one can meet in this forum.





Bingo. Give the man a cigar.

In the end every DVDP user gets the database they deserve.

Quoting Scooter1836:

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Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Scooter1836:

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The standard is not changing, the resulting name based on the standard is.  The standard is not the name, but how the name is determined.

You are right, my sentence was not correct . I should have written :
A standard that can gives changing results for the same request is not a standard. 

That is your opinion, by definition a standard does not require the same result over time.. But we are getting off topic.  The standard and rules are what they are, until Ken wants to change them contributors to the online database need to work with what we have


standard
  Use Standard in a sentence
stand·ard
[stan-derd] Show IPA
noun
1.
something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model.
2.
an object that is regarded as the usual or most common size or form of its kind: We stock the deluxe models as well as the standards.
3.
a rule or principle that is used as a basis for judgment: They tried to establish standards for a new philosophical approach.
4.
an average or normal requirement, quality, quantity, level, grade, etc.: His work this week hasn't been up to his usual standard.
5.
standards, those morals, ethics, habits, etc., established by authority, custom, or an individual as acceptable: He tried to live up to his father's standards.

I will provide an example.

In the US, Social security will send you a monthly check for your retirement based on certain criteria which include the year you were born and your current age (there is more too it, but truncating for the example).  The standard is defined by law however the resulting number of people receiving a benefit check each month changes each month.  The standard did not change, but the result set did.

It is the same here.  There is a set standard for determining the common name and the result set can change over time. 

If you want to blame someone, blame:
1) Companies that make the credits
2) Actors/crew that elect to use different names
3) Actors/crew that do not take the care to make sure their name is spelled correctly

But you can't throw all the blame on the standard.

I think we would all like a separate name database that cast/crew entries could actually point to instead of depending on the text inputted by the user.  However that requires a huge program change that Ken would have to agree to take on.  In the mean time we have what we have, it's not perfect by any means.  But like Scotthm said, if everyone would just do as the rules state then the CLT would be in much better shape.