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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Are credits under a divider like 'Aditional Visual Effects by ...' allowed? |
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| Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Since the rules do not say so and the roles are correct, per the rules, I disagree with removing them. Especially when they were already approved. I'm still going to continue, since they are addition crew. You can cherry pick the rules all you want, I also remove unit crew that you contribute, even though Geri ruled that no unit crew should be contributed. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Slightly off-topic: I pretty much consider the "it gets approved, so it must be right" stance to be the death of every debate. Remember: loads of incorrect IMDb-mined data still makes it's way into our database on a daily basis. Apparently, the fact that it keeps getting approved, must mean that it's the right thing to do, is it? |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't understand the argument
Is the credit under the header "Additional Digital Effects Supervisor" or is it "Digital Effects Supervisor"
I do not believe that the "Additional" in "Additional Effects by" has any bearing on whether the crew meets the "other crew requirements"
The only thing the "Additional Visual Effects by" is telling us, is they are not the main visual effects company.
If we carry this to the next level, once the primary visual effects company is listed, then we should not list any other visual effects company, for they are providing additional visual effects to the main company.
The rule states "Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements."
Since they are credited as "Digital Effects Supervisors", then the header is allowed and so is the credit.
As always MHO
Charlie |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Remove the company name from the header and it's just Additional Visual Effects, to me that would make them an invalid group of crew.
If you go the other way with disregarding the word additional in a header. Then every DoP, art director, director, costume supervisors, SFX should be contributed. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Remove the company name from the header and it's just Additional Visual Effects, to me that would make them an invalid group of crew. Where do you get this from the rules? Dividers Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits. Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices". Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". "Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered. Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements. Groups should be ended with a "Group End" type divider, unless the next entry begins a new group. Do not add a group end divider at the end of the cast, or at the end of a crew section." |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Remove the company name from the header and it's just Additional Visual Effects, to me that would make them an invalid group of crew.
Where do you get this from the rules?
Dividers
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices".
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
"Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered.
Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements.
Groups should be ended with a "Group End" type divider, unless the next entry begins a new group. Do not add a group end divider at the end of the cast, or at the end of a crew section." I wasn't quoting the rules. Anyway you want to slice it, you can post any rules quote you like. It's still Additional crew. It's the same as every other crew discription in the rules, look hard enough and you can find a grey area to include whatever you want. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I don't understand the argument...
Charlie First, I completely agree with CharlieM. I know this becomes a case of how you choose to interpret the rules, but until one of the Coles chooses to chime in and put this to rest, I am a huge fan of data and will continue to contribute them. If it were up to me, I would enter the entire credit list. I have done this for a couple of profiles, but they ended up getting corrupt. When you start using episode and group dividers in what I consider a logical way the program doesn't like it. Just my 2 pennies. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Where do you get this from the rules? The same place it says to use group dividers for song titles. They're in the Twilight Zone section. --------------- |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Where do you get this from the rules?
The same place it says to use group dividers for song titles. They're in the Twilight Zone section.
--------------- Where is it said in the rules to include additional. Since we list the principal crew for Director, producers, DoP, editor and disregard the others listed in the ending credits. If there is a VFX Supervisor listed in the opening Principal crew credits, shouldn't any others in the ending credits not be contributed, same with sound design, creature design and makeup effects. Or do we get to cherry pick what crew credits get included. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Where is it said in the rules to include additional. Since you asked... Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". Not that it's relevant. --------------- |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Where is it said in the rules to include additional.
Since you asked...
Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
Not that it's relevant.
--------------- And that isn't relevant, since that is for cast credits. I'm talking about crew credits. Just another case of someone cherry picking from different sections of the rules to condone contributing incorrect data. Try again. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Just another case of someone cherry picking from different sections of the rules to condone contributing incorrect data. I stopped contributing data months ago and don't really have much of an opinion on the matter. For my own profiles I'm pretty satisfied just taking crew from the opening credits. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
And that isn't relevant, since that is for cast credits. Isn't that what he said? Quote:
I'm talking about crew credits. Perhaps, but your statement didn't mention crew credits. You simply said, "Where is it said in the rules to include additional." Well, he told you where. I detected a hint of sarcasm. I guess you missed it. Quote:
Just another case of someone cherry picking from different sections of the rules to condone contributing incorrect data. At least he quoted a rule. I have yet to see you quote a rule to support your opinion. Quote:
Try again. "List individual credits only, not company name credits. Exception: If a company name heads a group of crew, use the Group divider to enter the company name." Does a company name head this group of crew? Yes. Does the rule say, "Unless it includes the word additional?" No. Seems pretty simple to me. If this, then that. No need to pick any fruit. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
And that isn't relevant, since that is for cast credits.
Isn't that what he said?
Quote:
I'm talking about crew credits.
Perhaps, but your statement didn't mention crew credits. You simply said, "Where is it said in the rules to include additional." Well, he told you where. I detected a hint of sarcasm. I guess you missed it.
Quote:
Just another case of someone cherry picking from different sections of the rules to condone contributing incorrect data.
At least he quoted a rule. I have yet to see you quote a rule to support your opinion.
Quote:
Try again.
"List individual credits only, not company name credits. Exception: If a company name heads a group of crew, use the Group divider to enter the company name."
Does a company name head this group of crew? Yes. Does the rule say, "Unless it includes the word additional?" No. Seems pretty simple to me. If this, then that. No need to pick any fruit. why would I need to specify crew, when this thread is about Additional Visual Effects. It seems that maybe there are a few people who are trying to sidetrack this thread by quoting rules for cast. hint of sarcasm, I don't think so. It was full on sarcasm. and to be technical. The company name is in the header, but is not the head of the group divider, Additional Visual Effects is the header. I take the rule not to include company names such as Tiny Juggernaut - Visual Effects because they are a company and not a person (but check the CLT there are 31 title credits for Tiny Juggernaut). But hey everyone has been around her longer than me, when the rules were writen and may have been in on the discussions. So I'll just sit back and follower your lead.  |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mitchg: Quote:
2. and 3. I think, are not valid because they are Digital Effects Supervisors for a company that do the 'Additional Visual Effects'. One would think that every film that credits multiple effects companies has had each effects company do "additional effects". That is unless they all worked on the exact same effects, which seems unlikely. --------------- |
| | Registered: September 3, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting mitchg:
Quote:
2. and 3. I think, are not valid because they are Digital Effects Supervisors for a company that do the 'Additional Visual Effects'.
One would think that every film that credits multiple effects companies has had each effects company do "additional effects". That is unless they all worked on the exact same effects, which seems unlikely.
--------------- Ok, but not each company is credited with 'Additional ... '. The question wasn't 'Who is doing additional work?', it was 'Are these credits valid or are they additional crew credits, when they are under a 'Additional ...' header?'. IMO the persons who work for a company that's doing additional work, are doing the actual additional work, so they are for me additional crew credits. But I didn't want to delete these credits without knowing if I'm right or not. | | | | Mitch |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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