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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Original title? |
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| Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,131 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
Whether we like it or not yes as the rule is currently written. Original titles are not dependent on region they are dependent on production origin and the title used in that country of origin. I am sorry, but that is not true. CoO is dependent on production origin, not Original Title. If it were, every film produced by a company outside of the US would be a foreign film. Bottom line, the Foreign Film rule only comes into play if the film is considered a foreign film. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
Country of Origin (COO)
Enter the country or countries in which the main feature's production company/companies are based, in the order they appear in the credits. Main Feature Production Company -> Country of Origin Quote:
Original Title
The Original Title field serves two general purposes, but in both cases allows for the tracking of the original feature title. For profiles which have an alternate title displayed on the cover, use the title from the film's credits. For titles released outside their country of origin, use the original release title.
Country of Origin -> Original Release Title The question is: What is an original release title?In case of Stirb Langsam it's easy. The movie was first released in the US by a US company and thus the OT is Die Hard. But what about The Fifth Element? Gaumont is French. Luc Besson is French. Patrice Ledoux (the producer) is French. But the people are speaking English. According to the database that shall not be named, TFE was released on May 7, 1997 in France and May 9, 1997 in the US. It is the same week, but in this case "original release" seems to strongly favour France and thus OT: Le cinquième élément | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,279 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I am sorry, but that is not true. CoO is dependent on production origin, not Original Title. If it were, every film produced by a company outside of the US would be a foreign film.
Bottom line, the Foreign Film rule only comes into play if the film is considered a foreign film. DJ's set out the logic which covers why I don't think your statement is correct. Although I can see an issue where it's a co-production, hence my qualifier on one of the other examples. But I would be interested in what qualifiers you would add to consider something a foreign film that would differentiate when the foreign film element came into play? | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Lithurge |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think these two posts, from the exact same conversation about The Fifth Element, back in 2002, sum up my feelings quite well. Quoting xradman: Quote:
I think if the movie was filmed in English with mostly American cast, the original title is most likely going to be the title in English, regardless of CoO. It's common sense, but I guess that doesn't always apply in DVDP forum.  Quoting Konrad: Quote:
This movie is a French production by Gaumont which took considerable financial risks in producing it. The company needed worldwide distribution to recover their investment. It was from the beginning intended for a global audience and not merely for the domestic market in France (and the rest of the French speaking world). That is why they used a mostly American/British star-studded cast, shot the picture in English and gave it an English title.
The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets. In my understanding of the rules, and I really don't think that I am wrong here, the field "Original title" has to stay empty as the BD's release title is the original title. That being said, I never did like the term 'Foreign Film' as it is an ambiguous term that is open to interpretation...any film not produced by a company in your country could be considered a foreign film. Foreign Language Film, which, in my opinion, is what the rules are after, is a better choice. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Martian.
I think the original is Joan of Arc, with alternate titles for USA and France.
Blueberry original title, alternate titles for USA and France.
Nikita original title. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I think these two posts, from the exact same conversation about The Fifth Element, back in 2002, sum up my feelings quite well.
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I think if the movie was filmed in English with mostly American cast, the original title is most likely going to be the title in English, regardless of CoO. It's common sense, but I guess that doesn't always apply in DVDP forum. The difference with "The Fifth Element" is that "Jeanne d'Arc" was not filmed in English. French actors spoke French, American actors spoke English, and both were dubbed to make a French and an American version. Anyway, this discussion is useless since rules are perfectly clear. People who do not like the way they are written can propose something new in the concerned forum, but please, do not take only the rules that please you and violate those you do not like. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I think these two posts, from the exact same conversation about The Fifth Element, back in 2002, sum up my feelings quite well.
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I think if the movie was filmed in English with mostly American cast, the original title is most likely going to be the title in English, regardless of CoO. It's common sense, but I guess that doesn't always apply in DVDP forum.
The difference with "The Fifth Element" is that "Jeanne d'Arc" was not filmed in English. French actors spoke French, American actors spoke English, and both were dubbed to make a French and an American version.
Anyway, this discussion is useless since rules are perfectly clear. People who do not like the way they are written can propose something new in the concerned forum, but please, do not take only the rules that please you and violate those you do not like. I started this thread to point out another issue with the rules concerning contributions. The only thing that will solve the problems is an edit of the wording as it is now. For this portion of the rules along with others. I know what the original title is, but I connot contribute it because it would be against the rules. So the CLT will show incorrect title amounts for everyone credited in this film. And the only way to have a correct total is by using the common name thread for cast and crew that are credited with multiple name varients. |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | I checked the Original Print Info at tcm.com and they have the CoO listed as the Czech Republic: http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/436810/Messenger-The-Story-of-Joan-of-Arc-The/original-print-info.html.
They list the title of the movie as follows:
Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc, The (1999)
a.k.a. "Jeanne d'Arc"
a.k.a. "Joan of Arc"
a.k.a. "Juana de Arco"
Irregardless of which language you put into the search field, the results remain as above with Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc, The (1999) as the primary title. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
I know what the original title is, but I connot contribute it because it would be against the rule. The original title is "Jeanne d'Arc" (French movie, filmed mainly in France (with some scenes in Czech Republic) by French director and French crew, with mostly French actors, and produced by a French Compagny), ... and it is not at all against the rules. The fact that it had a premiere in US does not make it American (as American movies that have a premiere in Cannes do not become French) "Jeanne d'Arc" won 2 "Césars" and was nominated for 6 other "Césars". "Césars" are French equivalent to American "Oscars", and were created for French productions. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: June 6, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 950 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
I agree with Martian.
I think the original is Joan of Arc, with alternate titles for USA and France.
C'est la cerise sur le gateau! Et moi qui pensais qu'on cherchait honnêtement le titre original, alors qu'en fait, on voulait une excuse pour utiliser le titre anglais comme titre original. DVDP étant un logiciel américain, il faut nous résigner à ce genre d'attitude... |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Wigram: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I agree with Martian.
I think the original is Joan of Arc, with alternate titles for USA and France.
C'est la cerise sur le gateau! Et moi qui pensais qu'on cherchait honnêtement le titre original, alors qu'en fait, on voulait une excuse pour utiliser le titre anglais comme titre original.
DVDP étant un logiciel américain, il faut nous résigner à ce genre d'attitude... Bien sûr, je veux la bonne Titre original. Si les crédits de DVD n'est pas suffisant alors je voudrais ressources qui aideront à faire cette détermination. |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Wigram: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I agree with Martian.
I think the original is Joan of Arc, with alternate titles for USA and France.
C'est la cerise sur le gateau! Et moi qui pensais qu'on cherchait honnêtement le titre original, alors qu'en fait, on voulait une excuse pour utiliser le titre anglais comme titre original.
DVDP étant un logiciel américain, il faut nous résigner à ce genre d'attitude... Yo estaba tratando de demostrar algo que las reglas son insuficientes. No creo que "Programa de inglés así que uso un título en inglés". Título original es el título original. Hay muchas empresas de producción extranjera que hacen películas que están diseñadas para ser lanzado en los Estados Unidos (donde está el dinero) y usan un título inglés. |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | 25th César Awards |style"background:#B0C4DE;"|Tonie Marshall |style"background:#B0C4DE;"|[[Venus Beauty Institute]]|style"background:#B0C4DE;"|Vénus Beauté (Institut) |- |Jean Becker (director, actor) |[[The Children of the Marshland]]|Les Enfants du marais |- |Luc Besson |colspan"2"|[[The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc]] |- |Michel Deville |[[La Maladie de Sachs|Sachs Disease]]||La Maladie de Sachs |- |Patrice Leconte |[[Girl on the Bridge]]|La Fille sur le pont |- |Régis Wargnier |[[East/West]]|Est–Ouest |- |}
2000s
Why with all the winners, The Messenger is the only one without a French title? |
| | Registered: June 6, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 950 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Yo estaba tratando de demostrar algo que las reglas son insuficientes. No creo que "Programa de inglés así que uso un título en inglés". Título original es el título original. Hay muchas empresas de producción extranjera que hacen películas que están diseñadas para ser lanzado en los Estados Unidos (donde está el dinero) y usan un título inglés. Soit, mais alors il faut clarifier les règles et non appliquer aveuglément des règles qui conduisent à donner un titre original anglais à un film français. |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Where should Original Title data be taken? Please list the resources you use to get that data.
I have always used:
- DVD credits
- Original Print Information
And, if necessary,
- the same film(s) in the invelos' database
- multiple third party sites |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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