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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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E.T. 20th Anniversary Edition |
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Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | I would contribute this data and believe it is the correct thing to do. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Eagle: Quote: So, should I be removing these credits also? Looking at the Contribution Notes for the set I have, it looks like I was the one who added the cast/crew credits almost 5 years ago. Was I mistaken in adding the 20th Anniversary credits? I may have confused you with my attempt to make a point so I will clarify. In my opinion, both location crew and restoration/special edition crew are allowed by the rules so, no, you were not mistaken in adding them. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | I am at the other side and believe they should not be included. For example there is a contribution up right now that adds location crew. Most are voting no. Votes now are at 2 Yes and 5 No. The Dividers say Chicago Unit and Calgary Unit. From the Rules: Quote: Do not enter unit crew such as "Unit Photographer" From Geri in a thread asking about Location Crew: Quote: As I read the rules, none of the Unit crew should be included. The rules state "For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Film Credits to Include" column. If someone is not credited with one of these roles, do not include them in the Crew section."
That seems pretty clear to me. If I am missing something in the discussion, which is probable, let me know.
-Gerri While I agree that what she says isn't as clear as I wish it was... the first sentence I put in bold seems pretty clear... especially on Unit crew none being allowed. Now with the credits actually saying Chicago Unit and Calgary Unit.... these are obviously unit crew.. credits say so itself... so going by Geri clarification these can not be added. I am trying to wrap my head around this so I understand completely. Are we saying these are not allowed only when they use the word Unit? I hope this isn't the case as we all know credits can be formed many different ways. And we will have a situation of sometimes yes and sometimes no. Leading to no consistency and contribution confusion. And to me restoration/special edition crew seems to be the same type of thing. | | | Pete |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: I am at the other side and believe they should not be included.
For example there is a contribution up right now that adds location crew. Most are voting no. Votes now are at 2 Yes and 5 No.
The Dividers say Chicago Unit and Calgary Unit.
From the Rules:
Quote: Do not enter unit crew such as "Unit Photographer"
From Geri in a thread asking about Location Crew:
Quote: As I read the rules, none of the Unit crew should be included. The rules state "For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Film Credits to Include" column. If someone is not credited with one of these roles, do not include them in the Crew section."
That seems pretty clear to me. If I am missing something in the discussion, which is probable, let me know.
-Gerri
While I agree that what she says isn't as clear as I wish it was... the first sentence I put in bold seems pretty clear... especially on Unit crew none being allowed.
Now with the credits actually saying Chicago Unit and Calgary Unit.... these are obviously unit crew.. credits say so itself... so going by Geri clarification these can not be added.
I am trying to wrap my head around this so I understand completely. Are we saying these are not allowed only when they use the word Unit? I hope this isn't the case as we all know credits can be formed many different ways. And we will have a situation of sometimes yes and sometimes no. Leading to no consistency and contribution confusion.
And to me restoration/special edition crew seems to be the same type of thing. Putting aside the Location Crew discussion because that is a totally different discussion, why should these Crew members not get added? The 20th Anniversary Edition lists these Crew in the credits, using a divider, and many of them are found on the Crew chart. This data can not be considered deleted scenes either because this DVD was made with the assistance of those Crew shown in the screenshot. Going strictly by the Crew Chart and even Gerri's statement many of these Crew members should get credited. Please point out in the rules/clarifications what I am missing that would exclude them. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | As I tried to point out... I am not 100% sure when it comes to restoration/special edition crew... which is why in such situations I don't vote at all.
I noticed Martian mention about the location crew... which effects a current contribution... and wanted to get my mind straight on it... so I asked. | | | Pete |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | ..snippet Quote: Putting aside the Location Crew discussion because that is a totally different discussion, why should these Crew members not get added?
The 20th Anniversary Edition lists these Crew in the credits, using a divider, and many of them are found on the Crew chart.
This data can not be considered deleted scenes either because this DVD was made with the assistance of those Crew shown in the screenshot.
Going strictly by the Crew Chart and even Gerri's statement many of these Crew members should get credited.
Please point out in the rules/clarifications what I am missing that would exclude them. Why should these be treated any different than location crew. I can actually make the argument, that they are less important than location crew as a whole. They are only modifying what the primary film crew (and location crew and unit crews) already have done. Almost all location crew are under a header of some type. These "SPECIAL CREWS" were not involved in the primary filming or production of the film, therefor I argue that they are no different than a location crew.... | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | I agree Charlie but the credits for ET are not location crew. Since there is a debate regarding the admissibility of location crew, I wanted to only address data outside of that topic. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 554 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote: These "SPECIAL CREWS" were not involved in the primary filming or production of the film, therefor I argue that they are no different than a location crew.... While they may not have been involved in the original production, the work of Special Edition or Restoration crews is clearly part of the movie, whether it's a new sound mix, new visual effects, newly edited sequences, or a reconstruction of the film, etc. For that reason, I would include them. | | | My DVD/Blu-ray Collection My Letterboxd Page |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: Now with the credits actually saying Chicago Unit and Calgary Unit.... these are obviously unit crew.. credits say so itself... so going by Geri clarification these can not be added. The opposite is true for me. Because of the example listed in the rules, and my knowledge of film crew, these are obviously not unit crew and can be added. Quote: I am trying to wrap my head around this so I understand completely. Are we saying these are not allowed only when they use the word Unit? I hope this isn't the case as we all know credits can be formed many different ways. And we will have a situation of sometimes yes and sometimes no. Leading to no consistency and contribution confusion. There are two groups in that camp...one that says no location crew at all, and one that says they are o.k. as long as they don't use the word unit. For me, neither is the right choice as there are many films where every crew position...except Writer, Producer, Director, Cinematographer, Composer & Editor, is under a location heading. Are we really saying that we don't want to credit those people? Quote: And to me restoration/special edition crew seems to be the same type of thing. Me too. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | I can see instances where Unit Crew should be allowed but, because of the wording, invelos' does not allow those credits.
Some of the threads I read mentioned that any primary Unit Crew(s) or primary Location Crew(s) should be the standard and contributed.
Any secondary Crew (2nd Unit, 3rd Unit, 2nd Location, etc.) would not valid for contribution purposes.
In any case, it would be nice to have some feedback from invelos. Contributions are adding or removing data based on different reading of the rules. Even worse, the screeners are accepting both which does nothing but exacerbate the problem. | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rizor: Quote: Quoting CharlieM:
Quote: These "SPECIAL CREWS" were not involved in the primary filming or production of the film, therefor I argue that they are no different than a location crew.... While they may not have been involved in the original production, the work of Special Edition or Restoration crews is clearly part of the movie, whether it's a new sound mix, new visual effects, newly edited sequences, or a reconstruction of the film, etc. For that reason, I would include them. This I agree with. It is the same as location crew. The location crew was hired in location instead of transporting the entire production crew. The people working in a second location are still Directing the art, recording and mixing sound, applying makeup and costumes, etc etc. I actually am for adding these type of crew, and really do not see a rule restriction (aside from Gerri's unclear clarification) In my mind, if location crew (people that are doing primary filming) are not allowed(because they are not addressed in the rules), then really we can't include any other crews that are involved within any special features or restoration functions (because they are not addressed directly within the rules). If special feature and or restoration crew are allowed, then there isn't a valid argument to not allow location crew. Any other reading would be hypocritical. This of course is my opinion Charlie |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | Quote: Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. From the rules, one could say that a directors cut/special edition/restored edition or an enhanced version of a film is a "distinct film" in it's own right and any separated credits should be entered as long as they fit the rules. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
Quote: Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction.
From the rules, one could say that a directors cut/special edition/restored edition or an enhanced version of a film is a "distinct film" in it's own right and any separated credits should be entered as long as they fit the rules. I don't think so. What the rules are referring to are multiple films on a single disc, where each distinct film would get its own set of credits under an episode divider. That is not the case here. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Nope... Like Martian said... and for stuff like where the entire cast is different for a different language... for dubbed films. Which is why you have the example of Japanese Cast in the rules. | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | The complete rules section regarding dividers. No where does it say multiple films. Distinct means: Quote: 1 : distinguishable to the eye or mind as discrete : separate <a distinct cultural group> <teaching as distinct from research> 2 : presenting a clear unmistakable impression <a neat distinct handwriting> 3 archaic : notably decorated 4 a : notable <a distinct contribution to scholarship> b : readily and unmistakably apprehended <a distinct possibility of snow> <a distinct British accent> — dis·tinct·ly adverb — dis·tinct·ness noun See distinct defined for English-language learners » See distinct defined for kids » I think 1 perfectly defines the topic of this thread. These editions are distinguishable to the eye or mind as discrete in that new effects or added scenes make them distinguishable from the theatrical editions. Quote: Dividers
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices". Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". "Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered. Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements. Groups should be ended with a "Group End" type divider, unless the next entry begins a new group. Do not add a group end divider at the end of the cast, or at the end of a crew section. Then, I guess, it's time to remove credits from All the Special Editions of the Star Wars films, Terminator 2, The Abyss, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Apocalypse Now and The Big Red One: The Reconstruction. |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote: The complete rules section regarding dividers. No where does it say multiple films.
Distinct means:
Quote: 1 : distinguishable to the eye or mind as discrete : separate <a distinct cultural group> <teaching as distinct from research> 2 : presenting a clear unmistakable impression <a neat distinct handwriting> 3 archaic : notably decorated 4 a : notable <a distinct contribution to scholarship> b : readily and unmistakably apprehended <a distinct possibility of snow> <a distinct British accent> — dis·tinct·ly adverb — dis·tinct·ness noun See distinct defined for English-language learners » See distinct defined for kids »
I think 1 perfectly defines the topic of this thread. These editions are distinguishable to the eye or mind as discrete in that new effects or added scenes make them distinguishable from the theatrical editions.
Quote: Dividers
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices". Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". "Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered. Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements. Groups should be ended with a "Group End" type divider, unless the next entry begins a new group. Do not add a group end divider at the end of the cast, or at the end of a crew section.
Then, I guess, it's time to remove credits from All the Special Editions of the Star Wars films, Terminator 2, The Abyss, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Apocalypse Now and The Big Red One: The Reconstruction. First off, I think they are using the term "distinct" to mean the "separate" part of the meaning, not so much as a different film from theatrical. i.e. John Wayne film collection, where there is more than 1 film on the same disc. As far as removing the Special Features or restoration crew, I am for keeping them, as long as the rules apply for other crews, or a specific exception is written into the rules (which I would be opposed, but would follow if in the rules). The way it is being argued right now Restoration crew is ok, primary filming crew is not if a location is added to the header (think a film that hires local help in the US and also in Australia, for filming in those locations). This thought is hypocritical, and puts in an exception where none exist. Either we accept both, neither, or write into the rules the exception... IMHO Charlie |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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