If the company that made the film has chosen to credit the local voice cast as part of the normal viewing experience then that is good enough to me, regardless of the technical configuration working behind the scenes. There is absolutely no way they can be considered uncredited in any sense of the word. What is next, branching sequences are not considered part of the film? 

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

Quote:
In fact those "Forced Extra Chapters"

A chapter is a part of a movie. What we are talking about is not a movie chapter, but separate video tracks, like all the FBI warnings, Interview disclaimers, Distributor intros, Thank Yous for buying the disc, and so on.

Quote:
can easily be considered as a "Forced Bonus Feature" (Similar but not identical to those forced trailers at the beginning of a disc).

Completely identical to the (forced) trailers at the beginning of a disc. The beginning of a disc does not start a video file, but a play list of video files. Just like Pressing Play does not start a video file, but starts a playlist of one or more video files, one of them being the film. You know what a play list is, don't you?

So you actually consider it better to remove the original Cast in order to keep the localised?

But anyhow:
In how far would this affect your local database?
Usually you would have Mr. Klebsch crosslinked to the most credited variant.
With the "uncredited"-approach all you'd loose was the need for a crosslink.

The changes would be limited to the CLT in which a lot of (IMO) incorrect entries would get removed.

Quoting awilbohk:

Quote:
Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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So you actually consider it better to remove the original Cast in order to keep the localised?

Sorry, but why should I remove the original cast?
The original cast is also credited and not replaced by the dubbers. The only exception I know is Epic, where only the Additional Voices of the original cast are credited.

And this is exactly the case I'm talking about.
I have others in my collection that would have the same problem, sadly I don't recall the titles now ("Finding Nemo" might have been one of them).

But since I forgot that people might be somewhat selective in their reading, I will put my question somewhat more specific:
So according to your preference you would in cases like "Epic" prefer to have the original main cast removed in order to keep the localised?

EDIT:

Quote:
Its quite clear how this would affect my and all others databases, every new profile where e.g. Mr. Klebsch isn't credited like in the local database brings a new variant.

??
Not if done properly.
Just as an example:
How would you treat the case if you found out about Mr. Klebsch not from some "Forced Extra" but from some Featurette on the "Making Of German Audio"? Would you stick with the name used in the Featurette, or would you use the name already present in your database?

For finding the "correct" variant you would, of course, use the CLT.
The fact that it is currently infested by (IMO) incorrect entries where he should have been flagged as "Uncredited" does not invalidate the results as such. They may need some re-auditing though, once the incorrect entries are gone.
In spite of your opinion, mine is quite the opposite, I consider the CLT to become more useful the more junk-data gets removed.

EDIT EDIT:

But please don't take this all too serious.
I'm aware that it has been done your way for ages, and it probably is easier to stay on this way, then to correct the profiles.

After all, Invelos is good in legalising personal preferences once they are almost impossible to clean out again.
As an example one might take the usage of "Group-Dividers" in Crew.
The original rules were (and in fact still are):
- No Company credits
- No Unit Crew

With the implementation of Group Dividers it was found out that these rules could easily be circumvented now. This resulted in a lot of contributions which violated these two rules and the basic definition of group (at least 2 members).
In the end this contributions did not only get accepted, no, they even induced a rule-change.

Quoting bbbbb:

Quote:

Quote:
If the company that made the film has chosen to credit the local voice cast as part of the normal viewing experience then that is good enough to me, regardless of the technical configuration working behind the scenes.

Only because a company has chosen to show a sequence of video files like trailers or textual notes like Interview disclaimers before and after the movie does not make them part of the film. It's not very technical, the additional files aren't selectable chapters of the film, and are not within the shown run time of the film.

Or, another example, ripping the movie. Just like there will be no trailers, there will be none of the French, Spanish, German, Italian dubbers lists. Not credited in the film = Uncredited.

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

Quote:
I like this,

First of all, the premise is wrong, it (usually) isn't the "company that made the film" that chooses to do so, but the company that produces the DVD/BluRay.

Even worse:
your statement above in combination with your previous statement here would in the case of my example lead to the absurd result that the original main-cast would have to be entered (if at all) as "Uncredited" at the end of the Cast-Listing, while the original "Additional Voices" are credited alongside the localised Voice-Cast.

If anyone could explain to me in how far this is congruent to any kind of Common Sense?

What I too like to know is: In how far it is a problem to list the localised Audo-Cast as "Uncredited" if they only appear in a "Forced Extra Chapter". After all no one is suggesting to remove them, it is only a change of status, the information as such remains untouched.

How far is this a problem at all? I've never seen a feature that completely removes the original cast and crew listing to substitute if for a localized voice cast. That would be absurd, and probably not legal (maybe you have a bootleg?) Maybe it's you who have the rare exception in which case I suggest you deal with it locally instead of trying to force your absurd ideas on others.

Most cases I've seen it's the same company handling production and home video, eg. Disney. Do you really think they can add localized cast without going through US Disney? Think again, EVERYTHING has to be approved by the main office, down to the last comma.

And it's only you who talk about removing credited cast, not me. Credited cast should not be entered as (uncredited) it would be a violation of its purpose.