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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
EVERY Blu-ray is Widescreen!
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
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Big fat no.

I want the profile to represent the image area of the film content.

BTW, since you know that every Blu-ray is "widescreen" I don't see why you need Profiler to tell you so. But do as you please locally and lock it, no one will complain if you do.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
Sushi Annihilator
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 2,217
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From the rules:
"Widescreen - Films that are presented in ratio wider than 1.33:1."

Well, to be honest, I never had much use for this terminology. I always thought that the aspect-ratio was the interesting thing and that it of course should be the original-aspect-ratio.

This whole section should be reworked, because I think that any modern TV-Series in 1,78:1 should be offended not to be called "Full Frame" although it fills up my HDTV completely. 


cya, Mithi
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,982
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Absolutly not... my blu-rays who are in a full frame format doesn't take all the screen space (centered on my TV screen). Wich is pretty much a given that they aren't widescreen.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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It would be good to change the name of full-frame or perhaps rework the whole video formats section to make it handle modern formats better, but that's a feature request, not a contribution thing.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Absolutely NO! we're after Movie aspect ratio, not media frame aspect ratio. Or can you tell which media has Pan&Scan frame? 

This.  A hundred times this.

As for the poll, I also skipped it as the options don't make any sense to me. 
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 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsamuelrichardscott
Registered: September 18, 2008
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A win-win situation would be to remove the checkboxes for widescreen/fullscreen and instead have checkboxes for:
- Pan and Scan
- Cropped
- Open Matte
- Original Aspect Ratio
- Multi Aspect Ratio (for titles with more than one)

Then just have a simple aspect ratio drop down box.

Or something like that...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,197
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Quoting Mithi:
Quote:
Well, to be honest, I never had much use for this terminology. I always thought that the aspect-ratio was the interesting thing and that it of course should be the original-aspect-ratio.


True. I think of it in theatrical terms: A full screen or full frame film is equivalent to what is sometimes called the academy ratio (or at least a close enough approximation) which was the common film format until the 1950s. In this process the whole image area of the film negative was exposed to the camera, hence a full frame. Later it was matted to produce a wider frame or anamorphic lenses were used for a similar effect. Thus widescreen refers to any film with a wider frame than the original academy ratio. So the screen ratio of the home video media is irrelevant in this sense. But that's just my way of internally rationalizing why the terminology is still being used. It's a bit of an anachronism today.

First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 3,321
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I understand that technically my TV is receiving a 16x9 frame.  It doesn't matter what the content is, the frame on the disc is 16x9.  So from this perspective you're absolutely correct.  Everything actually is widescreen.

I think the part you're not getting is that that information is useless.  First of all, it never changes.  They're ALL widescreen.  But more importantly, we actually care about the visible parts of the frame.  That's the part that holds the interesting content we just spent good money for.  The fact that there may be black bars as part of that frame doesn't matter.  That's the part of the movie we don't watch.  It certainly could be captured.  But unless there's a good reason to make note of the actual frame size on the disc, why do so?  I can't think of a single question that data would help answer.  Being "data" isn't enough.  If we're going take the time to capture and store it, it needs to be useful data.

Technically all the sound tracks on a BD are binary.  Should we do away with DTS and Dolby and so on because they're all binary?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGrendell
One disc at a time...
Registered: May 8, 2007
United States Posts: 824
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Information is not useless. I understand what the OP is asking for, but the program really doesn't support it.

For example, I have seen DVD's that are 16x9 anamorphic for full screen content. This is basically a mastering error because it's wasting pixels. That means, the ONLY way to get the proper aspect ratio is to set your TV or scaler to 16x9 mode.

For Blu-Ray, you could have 1:33 content that is stretched to full (wide) resolution, then set your TV or scaler to a full screen mode. Even though this would use more pixels, they would be redundant since you're down scaling.

In the end though, what would really really be handy (at least to me) in a DVD database program is TWO fields, 1) the actual aspect ratio of the disc, and 2) how the screen aspect appears when displayed in "full" on a 16x9 display. However, this would create so much confusion it will probably NEVER be implemented.

Example:

- DVD could be 1:85 aspect, 16x9 enhanced. When displayed full ("stretched") on a 16x9 screen, it appears as 1:85 when taking the black bars into consideration.

- DVD could be 1:33 aspect, 16x9 enhanced. When displayed full ("stretched") on a 16x9 screen, it appears as 1:33 when taking the black bars into consideration. (This is technically a mastering error, but is necessary on discs where you have some 1:33 screens where the majority of the material is say 1:85.)

- DVD could be 1:33 aspect, not 16x9 enhanced. When displayed full ("stretched") in a 16x9 screen, it appears as 1:78, but is "stretched" (is that a technical term?). The TV or scaler needs set to "full" or "1:33" mode to display this content with black bars on the side to show the correct aspect. This is actually the correct way to master full frame material on DVD.

- For a Blu-Ray, full frame source material is almost always 1:78 aspect with native black bars on the sides, and is not 16x9 enhanced (Blu-ray's are 1:78 native, which even confused me up until very recently!). When displayed full on a 16x9 screen, it appears as 1:33 when taking the black bars into consideration.

- Like I said, you could (though I've never seen it) have a Blu-Ray that's 1.78 aspect and contains full frame content, but is "stretched" natively! So, it would be 1:78 aspect, not 16x9 enhanced. When displayed on a 16x9 screen, it appears as 1.78, but is "stretched". So that would mean setting your TV or scaler to "full" or "1:33" should downscale and correct this to display it at the correct aspect ratio.

Anyway, I don't see this data as useless, just that I guess what it comes down to is you would need a second field that would 1) only be there to correctly document mastering errors, and 2) generally confuse a lot of people.
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 Last edited: by Grendell
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Another non-voter here; and I'm fine with the present system.

Even if it is technically incorrect to call it Full Frame when the 'full' output of a BD is widescreen, that is not what is understood by the words 'full frame' by the vast majority which is essentially shorthand for 4:3. Changing the meaning of Full Frame for the different formats would simply be conuter-productive, confusing and non-intuitive.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Completely agree with what Voltaire53 said above.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMallrat
Registered: December 13, 2008
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So do I.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorapltm
Registered: May 11, 2007
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I agree with Voltaire53 as well.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributoreommen
DVD nerd
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting samuelrichardscott:
Quote:
A win-win situation would be to remove the checkboxes for widescreen/fullscreen and instead have checkboxes for:
- Pan and Scan
- Cropped
- Open Matte
- Original Aspect Ratio
- Multi Aspect Ratio (for titles with more than one)

Then just have a simple aspect ratio drop down box.

Or something like that...

In my opinion this is way to technical as in most of us don't know or don't care too much about this depth of technical analysis. Same goes for a number of other posts here. That is not saying these posts are incorrect; my point is it is overdone.

Bearing in mind a widescreen TV is commonplace for years now, to me, there are just 4 categories:
- Old standard, AKA full frame, 'Academy format', 4:3, 1:1.33, vertical sidebars on a widescreen TV
- Full widescreen, includes 16:9, 1:1.78, 1:1.85, no horizontal or vertical sidebars
- Widescreen with small horizontal bars, includes 1:2.20, 1:2.35, 1:2.40 'anamorphic' DVD, 'enhanced for widescreen', BR, HD-DVD
- Widescreen with large horizontal bars, like 'non-anamorphic' DVD's

In other words, the viewing experience is IMO most relevant. Whether the original was butchered (standard frame cut to widescreen, cropped or panned etc) is a good question for cinephiles, no doubt, but on a deeper level of detailing. I can understand  a lot of the people here want this in the profile, this is the placefor movie/DVD enthousiasts, I've seen the contributions where the contributor proudly measured his pixel perfect display ratio. But is it relevant to the bulk of profiler users or, more importantly, profile contributors?

Same goes for the "is a BluRay anamorphic ot not". Technically perhaps not (see other threads), but what I want to know is how large (if any) are the horizontal black bars. All widescreen TV's (with an occasional exception like the ultrawide Philips) are not wide enough for a real 1:2.40 movie as displayed in the cinema. So to me, some of the anamorphic trickery has been used. But rather than focusing on the 'how' and the wording (yes/no anamorphic), what does it look like?

So, rather than the question posed in the OP, I'd prefer a simplification of the video section as outlined. Again, all technical arguments are not invalid, but why do we need a technical degree if we document a profile?
Eric

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting eommen:
Quote:

- Full widescreen, includes 16:9, 1:1.78, 1:1.85, no horizontal or vertical sidebars

1.85:1 has horizontal sidebars on 16:9 screen.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributoreommen
DVD nerd
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 485
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If not lost in the overscan, I find them hardly noticable. On 1:2.35/1:2.40 (anamorphic), that is what I'd call a horizontal bar  .
Eric

If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak.
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