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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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ADR Voices |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Thought I was done with this thread, but I was doing an edit for Aquamarine and came across a credit in the sound section with the ADR recordists. the credit is Voice Actor - E. G. Daily. Checked her other credits and she is the voice of Tommy Pickles (Rugrats) & Buttercup (Powerpuff Girls). So she is considered crew in this movie, being credited in the Sound section even thought she is credited as Voice Actor? She is credited as a voice ACTOR, not as 'ADR'...which is a crew role. Apples and oranges. Quoting ateo357: Quote:
I've already withdrawn my contribution. I will post it again and see how it goes. I just don't understand this. On the first page, you said "a little community clarity would be nice." Well, you got that community clarity...not once, but twice as this poll has the same results as the last. That being the case, why post it again?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Thought I was done with this thread, but I was doing an edit for Aquamarine and came across a credit in the sound section with the ADR recordists. the credit is Voice Actor - E. G. Daily. Checked her other credits and she is the voice of Tommy Pickles (Rugrats) & Buttercup (Powerpuff Girls). So she is considered crew in this movie, being credited in the Sound section even thought she is credited as Voice Actor?
She is credited as a voice ACTOR, not as 'ADR'...which is a crew role. Apples and oranges. But she is listed outside the standard cast credits, in with the sound section. There can be an argument that she is not allowed because she is in the sound crew credits making her crew. There can be an argument that she is allowed because she is credited as Voice Actor. No matter how or where it's credited on film, a voice-only role is credited as 'voice' |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
But she is listed outside the standard cast credits, in with the sound section.
There can be an argument that she is not allowed because she is in the sound crew credits making her crew. I am sorry, but this argument can't be made as the rules do not prohibit her being listed with crew. If she is credited as an actor, which she is in this case, she is entered as an actor. Quote:
There can be an argument that she is allowed because she is credited as Voice Actor. Which is what I said, she is credited as an actor so she gets entered as an actor. Quote:
No matter how or where it's credited on film, a voice-only role is credited as 'voice' True, but ADR is not a voice only role, it is a crew job...Automated Dialogue Replacement. If Ken decides otherwise, I will happily accept it. Until then, I can't. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Thought I was done with this thread, but I was doing an edit for Aquamarine and came across a credit in the sound section with the ADR recordists. the credit is Voice Actor - E. G. Daily. Checked her other credits and she is the voice of Tommy Pickles (Rugrats) & Buttercup (Powerpuff Girls). So she is considered crew in this movie, being credited in the Sound section even thought she is credited as Voice Actor?
She is credited as a voice ACTOR, not as 'ADR'...which is a crew role. Apples and oranges.
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I've already withdrawn my contribution. I will post it again and see how it goes.
I just don't understand this. On the first page, you said "a little community clarity would be nice." Well, you got that community clarity...not once, but twice as this poll has the same results as the last. That being the case, why post it again? I am hoping for a little community clarity. The only thing I see in the contribution rules Are For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox. There is talk of people trying to add by using grey areas. Well there is also the opposite of that by not allowing because they don't think it warrants a credit. I couldn't fing anything not allowing these credits. And if this is the 2nd or third time this has come up all Ken has to do is say yes or no to all voice only or pick which are important enough to get in the database and put it in the contribution rules. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
I am hoping for a little community clarity. But you got community clarity...twice. The first poll was 62 to 19 against including ADR. This poll is, currently, 22 to 8 against including ADR. While not unanimous, it seems fairly clear...the forum community doesn't think ADR should be entered as cast. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I am hoping for a little community clarity.
But you got community clarity...twice. The first poll was 62 to 19 against including ADR. This poll is, currently, 22 to 8 against including ADR. While not unanimous, it seems fairly clear...the forum community doesn't think ADR should be entered as cast. That's not the clarity that I mean. I'm hoping that the 22 will see that they're wrong and come out of the fog.  |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
I am hoping for a little community clarity.
But you got community clarity...twice. The first poll was 62 to 19 against including ADR. This poll is, currently, 22 to 8 against including ADR. While not unanimous, it seems fairly clear...the forum community doesn't think ADR should be entered as cast. Yes, and we all know in how far the community is up to deciding anything. Regarding your point that ADR is not voice. I don't quite understand what you mean here. What is it we hear from the ADR people? ... Voices! We may not understand what they are saying, but it's nevertheless their voices. Regarding your point that ADR is Crew and not Cast. Since when does Crew get casted?? I could name several credits where we can find a point named "ADR Casting by" or equivalent. It sometimes leaves me very astounded to see that on one hand the members of the community are calling for Ken's clarifications and on the other start a discussion on what he actually meant in the rare cases when he feels obliged to make one. Anyhow, Ken's clarification was quite unambiguous in this case, you may not like his decision, but nevertheless it's clear. ADR = voice? Yes! ADR = unspecified role? Yes! ADR = credited? If "Yes", enter it, if "No", don't. Absolutely no need to argue about this. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
Yes, and we all know in how far the community is up to deciding anything. I have no idea what you are talking about here, though it reads like an Unnecessary jab at the community. Quote:
Anyhow, Ken's clarification was quite unambiguous in this case, you may not like his decision, but nevertheless it's clear. While, Ken's clarification was quite unambiguous...especially taken as a whole, rather than cherry picked, it had nothing to do with this case. "On the latest topic, there is no exclusion for Additional Voices - if they're in the credits, they should be included. We include similar non-specific live-action credits, such as an actor credited as "Various roles". We also include specific voice actors, so I don't see a compelling reason to exclude non-specific voice credits." That opening sentence, along with the conversation he was responding to, make it quite clear what Ken was talking about. Spin it any way you want, ADR is not a non-specific voice credit, it is a very specific crew credit which is something that most of the forum community seems to agree on. Edit: I just had a look at all the ADR credits that were added to one of the R2 versions of The Bourne Supremacy, and not a single one is listed in the cast list at IMDb. They are, however, listed under the heading of 'Other crew'.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
Yes, and we all know in how far the community is up to deciding anything.
I have no idea what you are talking about here, though it reads like an Unnecessary jab at the community.
Quote:
Anyhow, Ken's clarification was quite unambiguous in this case, you may not like his decision, but nevertheless it's clear.
While, Ken's clarification was quite unambiguous...especially taken as a whole, rather than cherry picked, it had nothing to do with this case.
"On the latest topic, there is no exclusion for Additional Voices - if they're in the credits, they should be included. We include similar non-specific live-action credits, such as an actor credited as "Various roles". We also include specific voice actors, so I don't see a compelling reason to exclude non-specific voice credits."
That opening sentence, along with the conversation he was responding to, make it quite clear what Ken was talking about. Spin it any way you want, ADR is not a non-specific voice credit, it is a very specific crew credit which is something that most of the forum community seems to agree on.
Edit: I just had a look at all the ADR credits that were added to one of the R2 versions of The Bourne Supremacy, and not a single one is listed in the cast list at IMDb. They are, however, listed under the heading of 'Other crew'. Well I just took a look at Night at the Museum: Battle of th Smithsonian. They have voice actor credits in the sound sect. and IMDB have them listed in other crew. So I wouldn't use IMDB as a strong example. And of the 24 ADR (voice actors) in my contribution 11 are in the Night at the Museum Voice Actors (voice actors) | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Well I just took a look at Night at the Museum: Battle of th Smithsonian. They have voice actor credits in the sound sect. and IMDB have them listed in other crew. So I wouldn't use IMDB as a strong example. I can only guess as to why they did that...maybe because they don't play actual characters, just background sound and are treated as extras. If anything, this might cause me to rethink my position on 'Voice Actors' credited with the ADR and Loop Groups. Clearly there is a line drawn in the industry. I just had a look at Happy Feet...because one of the voice actors from Night at the Museum 2 is in that film...and they have 'Additional Voices' and 'Other Voices' listed with the cast, but 'ADR Voice' and 'Voice' listed under other crew. Of course, it could be that IMDb has drawn an arbitrary line, but that doesn't make much sense to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Well I just took a look at Night at the Museum: Battle of th Smithsonian. They have voice actor credits in the sound sect. and IMDB have them listed in other crew. So I wouldn't use IMDB as a strong example.
I can only guess as to why they did that...maybe because they don't play actual characters, just background sound and are treated as extras. If anything, this might cause me to rethink my position on 'Voice Actors' credited with the ADR and Loop Groups.
Clearly there is a line drawn in the industry. I just had a look at Happy Feet...because one of the voice actors from Night at the Museum 2 is in that film...and they have 'Additional Voices' and 'Other Voices' listed with the cast, but 'ADR Voice' and 'Voice' listed under other crew. Of course, it could be that IMDb has drawn an arbitrary line, but that doesn't make much sense to me. What I think concerning IMDB is if they are listed at the end of the cast, they are cast and if they are listed elsewhere in the crew credits they are other crew no matter how they are credited on screen. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
Yes, and we all know in how far the community is up to deciding anything.
I have no idea what you are talking about here, though it reads like an Unnecessary jab at the community.  How exactly did you come to this interpretation? All I wrote and meant is that it isn't up to the community to make decisions on rules. We may suggest something, but the decisions are made by Invelos. No jabs included, just stating a fact. Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Edit: I just had a look at all the ADR credits that were added to one of the R2 versions of The Bourne Supremacy, and not a single one is listed in the cast list at IMDb. They are, however, listed under the heading of 'Other crew'. Yupp, and IMDb just recently stated that Joseph McCarthy appeared in "Limitless" (2011). I guess we must consider him to be revived according to your logic. But just as a little reminder: We are not IMDb. And if IMDb decides to enter ADR as crew that doesn't mean that we have to follow. EDIT: Oh, and while we're on it: You haven't answered my question yet. Since when does crew get casted? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Additional voices is likely a waiter or something with one line. ADR provides background murmur. While it is a common job for minor voice actors who aren't getting enough major roles to put food on their family, it's not the same thing. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
ADR provides background murmur. Probably mostly, but not always. Compare: http://filmsound.org/terminology/adr.htmFor me it's as easy as that: If for the director the work done by the actor was important enough to get credited, who am I to decide that it was not? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
How exactly did you come to this interpretation?
All I wrote and meant is that it isn't up to the community to make decisions on rules. We may suggest something, but the decisions are made by Invelos.
No jabs included, just stating a fact. I don't believe I ever said it was up to the community to make decisions on rules. ateo357 stated that he wanted 'Community Clarity', I simply pointed out that he got exactly what he wanted. That being the case, your statement had no bearing on the conversation. Quote:
Yupp,
and IMDb just recently stated that Joseph McCarthy appeared in "Limitless" (2011). I guess we must consider him to be revived according to your logic. It's snide remarks like this that give me the impression you were being insulting. If you want to discuss, I will discuss. If you want to be snide, don't bother as I won't be playing that game. Quote:
For me it's as easy as that: If for the director the work done by the actor was important enough to get credited, who am I to decide that it was not? Do you really believe it is the director who decides what person gets what credit? Let's assume for a moment that he does, had the director really believed the work was important enough to be credited, they would have been given a cast credit, as opposed to a crew credit like the foley artists. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
What I think concerning IMDB is if they are listed at the end of the cast, they are cast and if they are listed elsewhere in the crew credits they are other crew no matter how they are credited on screen. I might agree with you except for the fact that, as an example, Billy Jackson and Katie Jackson, who are credited amongst the crew, are included in their LotRs cast list. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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