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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Wish to German people adding profiles - Do not use the sharp S |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 16, 2010 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 516 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Addicted2DVD
Thanks for the trick with the sort title, that solves a bit the problem to have the films of the same series together.
But for the names I do mostly not know the cover when I have it, just do a search. Look f.e. with Amazon, also there you would find Taxi 4 or Seven and not with T4xi and se7en the film you would like to buy, right?
Fritz | | | *
3D TV Panasonic TX-P65VT30J + Blu-ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT500
My Filmcollection online: www.filmkino.ch
* |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SwissFilm: Quote:
The problem is that we have the German language in Germany, Switzrland and Austria. But only the Germans know about the sharp S. So same language but different spelling. This is not very different than harbor/harbour in English. IMO, a profile should use correct spelling for the concerned locality. If it is a Germany locality, then use ß, if it is a Switzerland locality, then use SS, if that is what is correct in each places. There is no reason to add spelling mistakes in words/names. On another hand, I agree that the titles should match the movie's title and not the graphic representation of a cover. So I'm for Taxi 4, not T4Xi | | | | Images from movies |
|  | Blair | | Resistance is Futile! |
| Registered: October 30, 2008 |  Posts: 1,249 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is exactly why I wish the system would associate similar letters in order to take diacriticals out of the equation. That, or an "alternative spelling" field since that is not the same as "Original Title" field. Spell it the way that it is on the cover but at least be able to always come across the results for those who aren't using the same type of keyboard due to language differences.
The key example for me has always been Ri¢hie Ri¢h. Who in their right mind when searching for a title is going to think, "Maybe I should change the Cs to "cent" symbols and try again"? This example is also key for me because it seems debatable as to whether or not "Richie Rich" is the original title or not since it no mention is made on the back cover and the film itself displays the title with cent signs. | | | If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
He who MUST get the last word in on a pointless, endless argument doesn't win. It makes him the bigger jerk. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
Being completely ignorant of the German language and its variants, is this not something that can be addressed by Locality? A Swiss localization for a German title that uses the double-S instead of that funny-looking B?
 Of course, if the same DVD is sold in Switzerland as well, which often is the case. But for the Swiss profile the release date and SRP would be different as well. And sometimes the Swiss release of the same film is completely different (e.g. from a different company). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SwissFilm: Quote:
Hello RHo
About standard capitalisation. The Blu-ray Taxi 3 is in the database as Taxi 3 what is correct. The Blu-ray Taxi 4 is in the database as T4xi. I think nobody searches for T4xi when looking for Taxi 4, also it is written on the cover T4xi.
Fritz Unlike ss and ß this has nothing to do with capitalisation. On the cover of some releases of Taxi 4 there is a graphical (or logo) representation of the title. Some people think that they should try to emulate that look in the text only field of the profile and I would disagree. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | All of this is academic anyway as Ken has already ruled on this situation here: Quote:
"ß" is a relatively rare case in that there is no capital version. With instances such as this (if others are found), when there is no upper case equivalent to "ß", and if "ß" is routinely capped as "SS" in the native language, the "ß" character may be used. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
All of this is academic anyway as Ken has already ruled on this situation here:
Quote:
"ß" is a relatively rare case in that there is no capital version. With instances such as this (if others are found), when there is no upper case equivalent to "ß", and if "ß" is routinely capped as "SS" in the native language, the "ß" character may be used. There is no need to capitalize ß, since a double ss does not occur at the start of any German word I think. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | Additionally to what has already been said, German words in some cases have different meanings by using ss instead of ß. One example: Maße means translated into English the plural of measure , Masse however means mass. I don't know how the Swiss people handle that difference. But it exists.
German pupils are forced to learn the correct use of ß or ss at school. If, as You point out Fritz, many of them do not know the rules themselves, then it is a problem of education, not of the orthographic rules.
Anyway, getting the titles sorted correctly, I always enter ss instead of ß in the sorting title, as well as I enter ae, oe and ue instead of ä, ö and ü. And Se7en is of course Seven in the sorting title. Otherwise there would be complete confusion in the alphabetic sorting of the collection.
With film series like Alien I suggest to enter the series title followed by the production year in the sort title field: Alien1979, Alien1986Aliens, Alien1992Alien³, Alien1997AlienResurrection ... or at least Alien01, Alien02Aliens ... Otherwise Aliens will be sorted after Alien Resurrection which makes no sense at all.
So try to create an efficient system for the sorting title, and You will have no more problems with getting quick access to your films. |
| | Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
There is no need to capitalize ß, since a double ss does not occur at the start of any German word I think. Very often the complete title is CAPITALIZED on the cover and/or in the film credits. Example: DAS GROSSE RENNEN RUND UM DIE WELT (= The Great Race). Orthographically correct is "Das große Rennen rund um die Welt" and it should be entered that way into the title field. But when capitalized for stylistic reasons e.g. on the film poster the ß is not allowed and has to be replaced by SS. That was meant in the rule the Martian mentioned. | | | | Last edited: by schaumi |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,774 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
This is not very different than harbor/harbour in English. IMO, a profile should use correct spelling for the concerned locality. If it is a Germany locality, then use ß, if it is a Switzerland locality, then use SS, if that is what is correct in each places. Not without a change in the rules. At the moment it's simply "Use the title from the front cover." |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Is the SS giving the world hassle again?  |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
Is the SS giving the world hassle again? | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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|  | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting SwissFilm:
Quote:
The problem is that we have the German language in Germany, Switzrland and Austria. But only the Germans know about the sharp S. So same language but different spelling.
This is not very different than harbor/harbour in English. IMO, a profile should use correct spelling for the concerned locality. If it is a Germany locality, then use ß, if it is a Switzerland locality, then use SS, if that is what is correct in each places.
There is no reason to add spelling mistakes in words/names.
On another hand, I agree that the titles should match the movie's title and not the graphic representation of a cover. So I'm for Taxi 4, not T4Xi If the movie title is different from the DVD title then there's an original title field for the actual movie title. In the case of Se7en the actual movie title is Se7en as well, so why should I question and change the filmmaker's choices? | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Have to agree with SwissFilm, not because I wouldn't know when to use "ß" and when "ss", but simply because the ß is almost never used on the actual frontcover. Some contributors (about half a year ago) changed the "ss" which was to be seen on the cover against an "ß" because: Quote:
the title on the front cover is completely CAPITALIZED - the letter "ß" ("weiße") is replaced by "SS" ("WEISSE") when capitalized, because there is no capital "ß" (the contribution rules for titles say: "For non-English titles, use capitalization rules common to the language of the title." (Quote from memory). Example: White Men Can't Jump German Title on Cover: Weisse Jungs bringen's nicht Got changed to: Weiße Jungs bringen's nicht  In my eyes this change was incorrect, at least it's harder this way to find this title by title search. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
German pupils are forced to learn the correct use of ß or ss at school. If, as You point out Fritz, many of them do not know the rules themselves, then it is a problem of education, not of the orthographic rules. Indeed, and not just German pupils.  To put it bluntly, if you design a database for idiots, only idiots will use it. We shouldn't dumb down the data just because some people find it convenient to remain ignorant of the local spelling rules. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
[...]
Example: White Men Can't Jump
German Title on Cover: Weisse Jungs bringen's nicht
Got changed to: Weiße Jungs bringen's nicht
In my eyes this change was incorrect, at least it's harder this way to find this title by title search. No, it was correct, because by entering it into the title field you switch from CAPITALS to just normal spelling. And then "weisse" is wrong. The only way to keep the "SS" would be to enter the title all in CAPITALS. And we don't want to do this, don't we? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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