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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Can we ever stop copying from IMDb? |
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| Author |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
Although they might be contributing incorrectly, I think most people feel that they are helping when they share their work with the community.
And do not forget that each time you make a change to a local profile, you have a splash screen that asks you to contribute that change to the database. Many users have this screen in their own language, and for those who hardly speak english, they quite ignore what's in the rules. I don't get a splash screen - I don't remember ever getting something like that. All that happens for me is the hand holding the DVD (next to the lock) gets highlighted. |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
I don't get a splash screen - I don't remember ever getting something like that. You can click a checkbox for something along the lines of "Don't ask me again", and if you check that, you'll never get to see it again. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I wasn't sure what he meant by a splash screen either. I never saw one either. I only see the same thing as Kathy.
As for the topic... I don't see this happen as often as I used to... but I am sure it does still happen. Wish something could be done... but as long as there is people that can't read the rules (language reasons) or as long as there is people that just don't care... I am afraid there is little that can be done about the contributions.
And I know what the OP means... a contributor putting that they get the info from imdb... get no votes or declined and then just upload the same info saying from the credits. I think that needs to be stopped... but how? That I don't know. I mean it would be one thing if there was still a record of the changes from the first time. So we can compare what they put the first time and compare it to the second time. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
I don't get a splash screen - I don't remember ever getting something like that.
You can click a checkbox for something along the lines of "Don't ask me again", and if you check that, you'll never get to see it again. That must be it... I would have done that so long ago I would have forgotten!  | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
I don't get a splash screen - I don't remember ever getting something like that.
You can click a checkbox for something along the lines of "Don't ask me again", and if you check that, you'll never get to see it again.
That must be it... I would have done that so long ago I would have forgotten! I'm so glad I'm not the only one having "senior moments"!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Now Kathy... did you have to put it that way? | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quote:
One central Profile
There's the solution, indeed. We really need to have one set of cast and crew data for each film, rather than one for each DVD. Even apart from the IMDb-mined data, right now every new birth year, every new common name, every new-found (uncredited) cameo, has to be discovered by dozens of users throughout just as many localities. Everyone keeps having to reinvent the wheel, over and over and over again. I've come to the conclusion that we're never ever going to clean up the database if we stick with the current system. Of course, it'll be a huge program overhaul, so it's not something I expect to happen anytime soon, but I do honestly believe that that's the way to go. How about a film based Reference Profile with only cast and crew? Maybe named "Ref: OriginalTitle (ProductionYear)". No big challenge for the online, just yet another profile. Users interested in building/maintaining a Reference Profile could group them in a Custom Collection Category. Each new contribution has to be based on the Reference Profile first. Deviations are allowed, of course, but have to be justified on a case-by-case basis. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
I was checking the credits for a recently released film Which film? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
I don't get a splash screen - I don't remember ever getting something like that.
All that happens for me is the hand holding the DVD (next to the lock) gets highlighted. Here is what you get. If you check the box, it disappears. You can get it back by setting the key from 0 to 1 in Windows registry.  | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting jmbox: Quote:
I've seen many examples where the cast list is obviously from IMDB, and the contribution notes follow the pattern of "cast/crew data taken from IMDB" - Declined. "cast/crew data taken from end credits" - Approved.
I don't know if there's any way we can highlight these contributors to the screeners, so that they can be flagged and have future contributions more thoroughly checked.
I agree with ninehours, in that central profiles is the way to go and solves several issues with the current system. If you see an example of this, please open a support ticket with a link to the example. Generally we give one warning on this, then a permanent contribution ban. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Wow, also thought I never seen the splash screen. But the screenshot helps my memory.  | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
[How about a film based Reference Profile with only cast and crew? Maybe named "Ref: OriginalTitle (ProductionYear)".
No big challenge for the online, just yet another profile. Users interested in building/maintaining a Reference Profile could group them in a Custom Collection Category.
Each new contribution has to be based on the Reference Profile first. Deviations are allowed, of course, but have to be justified on a case-by-case basis. That would just make thing worse, I mean, one profile more that isn't liked anywhere. What about if we get new fields introduced for Crew in future versions, constantly changing common names etc.? Only way to do it correctly is what T!M suggested + change the linking system to unique ID based at the same time. Many might say that the data in imdb is crap, but the database design itself is superior compared to DVDP. Winner combination would be DVDP rules with imdb database design. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote:
Quoting bbbbb:
Quote:
[How about a film based Reference Profile with only cast and crew? Maybe named "Ref: OriginalTitle (ProductionYear)".
No big challenge for the online, just yet another profile. Users interested in building/maintaining a Reference Profile could group them in a Custom Collection Category.
Each new contribution has to be based on the Reference Profile first. Deviations are allowed, of course, but have to be justified on a case-by-case basis.
That would just make thing worse, I mean, one profile more that isn't liked anywhere. What about if we get new fields introduced for Crew in future versions, constantly changing common names etc.?
Only way to do it correctly is what T!M suggested + change the linking system to unique ID based at the same time. Many might say that the data in imdb is crap, but the database design itself is superior compared to DVDP. Winner combination would be DVDP rules with imdb database design. I think that design (which would require a complete overhaul of the on-line database, so I'm not expecting it in the near future) would work, with the ability to create variant "spin-off" cast & crew for those localities where the data on-screen is different. For example, pretend that Film A comes out on DVD & Blu-ray in the United States and someone enters in the information for the film. As the other countries receive their releases, they would link to that same primary cast and crew. If, say, the French release contained some differences (such as having the role names translated into French), they would be able to create a kind of "child" or locality version that adds these distinctions. If another French release of the title came about, they could link to that child version instead of the primary. Sort of like when we enter a UPC that has multiple localities: the menu shows you the options for that UPC. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bigdaddyhorse: Quote:
Central film profiles sound like a good idea to me, and in those rare cases of different credits, we can just add notes to the locality, and maybe use credited as to match the original (using original locality if possible). That's even better than my idea of central discs (discs with the same ID get updates from any of the ttiles that disc is linked to). There was some reason the disc ID thing wouldn't work that makes me think a central film profile is also not possible as of now.  A possible solution would be a web based central profile ala IMDB but instead it would be Invelos web profile that is still user contributed. With a central profile, you could add a locality feature so those differences could be tracked and contributed. Then add a feature to allow when a new title is released or re-released have the option to download the cast and crew from the central profile. Each DVD/Blu-ray release would still have its own profile but, with a central profile. For those members who feel the need to scrape data from IMDB could just scrape their data from Invelos. This could make updating the various profiles from around the world easier. Also, have the CLT use the central profile data base instead all the various DVD profiles. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. | | | | Last edited: by Tracer |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
For those members who feel the need to scrape data from IMDB could just scrape their data from Invelos. The main reason to take data from IMDb is to obtain good linking of actors. If all your profiles have names from IMDb, your local database links without extra work. An Invelos central profile will be interesting only if the problem of linking of actors is solved, I mean Zhang Ziyi in movie A considered as the same as Ziyi Zhang in movie B, and John Smith (unknown date of birth A) non considered the same as John Smith (unknown date of birth B). Present system doesn't work, and if we keep that insane common name concept, your central profiles will be as uninteresting as present online data. So the problem is not to have central profiles, it is to have a proper linking system, which, I think, is easier to create than rewriting all the program to change the global concept (so more likely to happen). | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | You have to have some sort of linking of the data, IMDB does it by what appears to be first credited name then using roman numerals for those with the same name. It is a standard that they have come up with. We need something that works for Invelos and those that use DVD Profiler and I don't think Invelos will ever use IMDB data to fix any issues we currently have. Even as great as IMDB may be or appear to be, I have seen issues even with their linking system with the wrong actor credited for a particular film that has the same or similar name. So they are far from perfect when it comes to linking.
Problem we have... is we have a standard for names but, some contributors still refuse to follow those standards so we basically have a mixed bag. Some names coming from the film credits and some coming from other sources. As long as that is going to happen it is going to throw off the CLT results. That's why I mentioned having the CLT use the main profile instead of all the profiles out there for the same movie.
A central profile that is user contributed but, where everyone can see would make it easier to have valid data and keep it valid as we could see someone trying to put invalid data on the central profile. Right now we can only see contributions on profiles we currently have. Not the untold number that is out there for the same film. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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