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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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3-D at home |
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| Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | 120 hz alone is not enough. Current 120 hz TVs (or even 240 hz) are only capable of using that refresh rate to either a) show the same frame several times, or b) use motion interpolation.
The shutter-type 3D systems need to send a different frame for each refresh, which at 1080P, 120 hz, is something that HDMI cannot do at this time.
As far as I know, the current stuff uses pseudo-3D, where the "3D" image is generated on the TV, presumably with motion and object identification software. It generates a "3D" image from standard DVDs and Blu-rays. I haven't seen it but given my experiences with motion interpolation, I'm not expecting to be impressed.
"True 3D" via Blu-ray will require that the player send the alternating frames to the TV. Since HDMI can't do this at 120 hz, my understanding is that it will require a new player and new television, with a new connectivity standard. Theoretically this could be done over HDMI with the right standards in place.
My guess is we'll see this stuff on PCs first.
Of course, I've been wrong before. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks for your insights, Ken. There's a lot of info in your post I wasn't aware of.
A quick question: Sony has stated that the PS3 would be firmware upgradable to allow 'True 3D'. Since it has a connection for HDMI 1.3a, would that imply that HDMI 1.3a would be sufficient for True 3D?
There's also the possibility of course that this is just marketing talk. | | | Blu-ray collection
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| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | It would seem that HDMI 1.4 supports 3D. More on the topic can be found here. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 223 |
| | Posted: | | | | It appears the 3-D blu-ray spec has been finalizedIt does mention that the PS3 will be capable of displaying 3-D content... | | | | Last edited: by stevegblair |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | The PS3 is a unique beast. I would guess that it may be possible to do 3D, with the right TV, if the TV had an ethernet jack to send the extra information over, but I still think they'd run into a bandwidth bottleneck for the doubled video data. Will be interesting to see. dee, thanks for the link on 1.4. Looks like that's the ticket, and devices may come mid next year. Interesting that it supports 3D and 4K resolution, but not at the same time. Wow timely announcement on the Blu-ray 3D spec! So all we need now are new players, new TVs, and new Blu-rays! Easy! *EDIT* Oops - also new shutter glasses for every viewer, and chargers for them, and replacements when they're stepped on.... Now to a far more imporatant release today. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 223 |
| |  | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Now to a far more imporatant release today. I wonder if the price of the original might finally go down on Blu-ray now! Even importing it's still going to cost an arm and a leg. | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: June 15, 2008 | | Posts: 220 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting stevegblair: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Now to a far more imporatant release today.
No fair Ken....I thought you were talking about the new beta for a second.....  yeah i thought the same thing...the link says video cannot be found at the moment. |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Now to a far more imporatant release today.
I wonder if the price of the original might finally go down on Blu-ray now! Even importing it's still going to cost an arm and a leg. I doubt a trailer release is going to reduce the price of the blu-ray. If anything it would be more likely that if they do drop the price it happens before the movie's release. But even then I would suspect that it depends on how the cross-promote the first's blu-ray release with the theatrical release of the 2nd -Agrare |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Here is the press release... Quote:
Blu-ray Disc Association Announces Final 3D Specification
"Blu-ray 3DTM" Expected to Reach Consumers in 2010
LOS ANGELES --(Business Wire)-- Dec 17, 2009
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) today announced the finalization and release of the "Blu-ray 3DTM" specification. The specification, which represents the work of the leading Hollywood studios and consumer electronic and computer manufacturers, will enable the home entertainment industry to bring the 3D experience into consumers' living rooms on Blu-ray Disc, the most capable high definition home entertainment platform.
"Throughout this year, movie goers have shown an overwhelming preference for 3D when presented with the option to see a theatrical release in either 3D or 2D," said Victor Matsuda, chairman, BDA Global Promotions Committee. "We believe this demand for 3D content will carry over into the home now that we have, in Blu-ray Disc, a medium that can deliver a quality Full HD 3D experience to the living room."
The "Blu-ray 3D" specification fully leverages the technical advantages of the Blu-ray Disc format to deliver unmatched picture quality as well as uniformity and compatibility across the full range of Blu-ray 3D products, both hardware and software. Notably, the specification allows every Blu-ray 3D player and movie to deliver Full HD 1080p resolution to each eye, thereby maintaining the industry leading image quality to which Blu-ray Disc viewers are accustomed. Moreover, the specification is display agnostic, meaning that Blu-ray 3D products will deliver the 3D image to any compatible 3D display, regardless of whether that display uses LCD, Plasma or other technology and regardless of what 3D technology the display uses to deliver the image to the viewer's eyes.
"From a technological perspective, it is simply the best available platform for bringing 3D into the home," said Benn Carr, chairman, BDA 3D Task Force. "The disc capacity and bit rates Blu-ray Disc provides enable us to deliver 3D in Full HD 1080p high definition resolution." The Blu-ray 3D specification is also designed to allow PS3 game consoles to play back Blu-ray 3D content in 3D. Additionally, the specification supports playback of 2D discs in forthcoming 3D players and can enable 2D playback of Blu-ray 3D discs on the large installed base of Blu-ray Disc players currently in homes around the world.
"In 2009 we saw Blu-ray firmly establish itself as the most rapidly adopted packaged media format ever introduced," said Matsuda. "We think the broad and rapid acceptance Blu-ray Disc already enjoys with consumers will be a factor in accelerating the uptake of 3D in the home. In the meantime, existing players and libraries can continue to be fully enjoyed as consumers consider extending into 3D home entertainment."
The Blu-ray 3D specification calls for encoding 3D video using the Multiview Video Coding (MVC) codec, an extension to the ITU-T H.264 Advanced Video Coding (AVC) codec currently supported by all Blu-ray Disc players. MPEG4-MVC compresses both left and right eye views with a typical 50% overhead compared to equivalent 2D content, and can provide full 1080p resolution backward compatibility with current 2D Blu-ray Disc players. The specification also incorporates enhanced graphic features for 3D. These features provide a new experience for users, enabling navigation using 3D graphic menus and displaying 3D subtitles positioned in 3D video.
The completed specification will be available shortly and provides individual manufacturers and content providers with the technical information and guidelines necessary to develop, announce and bring products to market pursuant to their own internal planning cycles and timetables. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... | | | | Last edited: by NewEnglander |
| | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 | | Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
Quoting W0m6at:
Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Now to a far more imporatant release today.
I wonder if the price of the original might finally go down on Blu-ray now! Even importing it's still going to cost an arm and a leg.
I doubt a trailer release is going to reduce the price of the blu-ray. If anything it would be more likely that if they do drop the price it happens before the movie's release. But even then I would suspect that it depends on how the cross-promote the first's blu-ray release with the theatrical release of the 2nd
-Agrare Although reading what I wrote, I certainly did not make it clear, in my head, that is what I had meant. Hopefully when the movie is released, the first film will price-drop. Quoting Mysticum: Quote:
yeah i thought the same thing...the link says video cannot be found at the moment. Apple have it, and I think if you can download it via iTunes you can later grab it out of the movies folder for other purposes (gonna try it out on the PS3). Iron Man 2 trailer @ AppleBack on topic, how come the options being discussed about all require glasses? I know there is a race on to bring 3D into homes. Is older technology being used to win that race, with more convenient technology to follow? Quote:
NEC will bring out next year a display that includes technology which changes the way light moves in each LCD pixel, meaning that the right and left eye sees different images on the screen.
The report said that NEC will produce a number of 3D displays, all of which will have comparable resolution to regular LCD displays. The first will be a 12.1-inch model but it will also produce very much smaller display in the future, as well as screens for portable televisions. From TG Daily | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
Back on topic, how come the options being discussed about all require glasses? I know there is a race on to bring 3D into homes. Is older technology being used to win that race, with more convenient technology to follow? I really haven't closely followed all this 3-D stuff. I've seen two 3-D movies in theater, Toy Story double feature and A Christmas Carol, the later which had a $14 price tag which has somewhat turned me off of 3-D ($10 for regular was bad enough, I fail to see how having 3-D but raising the price 40% is going to help draw more people to the theater. Anyway that's somewhat off topic). The 2 I saw used Real-D which is glasses with a polarized lense so each eye sees a slightly different image. The other glasses I've heard of but not seen is shutter glasses where, my understanding is, that each lense alternates open closed (very rapidly) showing you different images (but it appears as one and is in-sync with above mentioned refresh rate) so the image looks 3-D. These are the type of glasses being referred to (it's actually more the latter type when it comes to the home format I believe) not the old red/blue glasses you're probably thinking about when you say older technology -Agrare |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | The metthod Ken is referring to is only one of several methods that will be available, but will probably be the most common. There are also some that use slight colors shifts to separate the images or are polarized. |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
The metthod Ken is referring to is only one of several methods that will be available, but will probably be the most common. There are also some that use slight colors shifts to separate the images or are polarized. but there is only one specification that is approved by the Blu-ray disc association. that which was referenced by stevegblair and NewEnglander. In order to comply with the BDA and use 3-D it will need to meet that specification. There will probably be some blu-ray 3-D logo or something and use of that logo, just like use of the blu-ray logo, will require meeting those standards. -Agrare |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
The metthod Ken is referring to is only one of several methods that will be available, but will probably be the most common. There are also some that use slight colors shifts to separate the images or are polarized.
but there is only one specification that is approved by the Blu-ray disc association. that which was referenced by stevegblair and NewEnglander.
In order to comply with the BDA and use 3-D it will need to meet that specification. There will probably be some blu-ray 3-D logo or something and use of that logo, just like use of the blu-ray logo, will require meeting those standards.
-Agrare There's one standard for how to transmit the data, but it's up to the device how to display it. |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's true, but the solutions that don't require glasses do require a particular viewing sweetspot/angle, from what I understand.
For front projection, it would seem the only solution will be shuttered glasses. We sometimes have up to 25 people over to watch a movie, so for a 3D one that's 25 times what for the glasses? $200? Yikes. Hopefully less! That's in addition to the new projector and player.
Hmmm... Red/Blue 3D is starting to sound great! :D | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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