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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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20th Century Fox |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Small bit of history: Twentieth Century Fox was created by the merger of two film companies...Twentieth Century Pictures and Fox Film Corporation. The hyphenated form of the name was used to show that merger. I did read the Wikipedia-entry, yes. The key issue is that both "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox" refer to the same company. That's what it's all about. Note, of course, that I would never enter studio credits for either "Twentieth Century Pictures" or "Fox Film Corporation" under the "Twentieth Century Fox" header: those were entirely different companies, so they would each get their own entry - obviously. But again, both "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox" refer to the same company, so I feel they should be entered under one common name. It's just as you would link up your cast entries for someone who is credited sometimes with, and sometimes without the dash in his name. If it's the same person, we're supposed to maintain ONE entry for him. I don't see why studios should be treated any differently. Other than that, I can't say I'm particularly impressed by poll results from March 2007 - quite a lot has happened since then. I could dig up quite a few polls from around that time where we do the exact opposite today. The fact of the matter is that the rules do NOT say "as credited", while that could have easily been done. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I did read the Wikipedia-entry, yes. The key issue is that both "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox" refer to the same company. That's what it's all about. That's what it is all about for you. That is not what it is all about for everybody. And, by the way, I didn't have to read the wikipedia entry to get the information...though I did use if to get the dates. Quote: Note, of course, that I would never enter studio credits for either "Twentieth Century Pictures" or "Fox Film Corporation" under the "Twentieth Century Fox" header: those were entirely different companies, so they would each get their own entry - obviously. Obviously. Quote:
It's just as you would link up your cast entries for someone who is credited sometimes with, and sometimes without the dash in his name. If it's the same person, we're supposed to maintain ONE entry for him. I don't see why studios should be treated any differently. Ah, but there is the rub. With actor credits, because of the 'credited as' system, both forms are preserved. With a common studio name, you lose one in favor of the other. Not quite the same now, is it? While you don't seem to care, there are people that do. Our standard should always be each individual DVD. Variations based on personal preference, which a common studio name is, should be kept local. Quote: Other than that, I can't say I'm particularly impressed by poll results from March 2007 - quite a lot has happened since then. I could dig up quite a few polls from around that time where we do the exact opposite today. The fact of the matter is that the rules do NOT say "as credited", while that could have easily been done. Entering all studio names 100% 'as credited' would cause problems as, on occasion, the credits use abbriviated versions of the name...'Universal'...'Seraphim'...etc. We don't want those names, which is why the rules allow for 'correct' names. If we were after 'common names', the rules would say 'common name' rather than 'correct name'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: 20th Century-Fox = Twentieth Century-Fox I'd filter that one to "Twentieth Century Fox" as well. I honestly believe that there are no more then a dozen users (I was tempted to say five, but I'll try to be optimistic) who are interested in recording the difference between "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox". They refer, after all, to the same company. If you ask me, the rules-prescribed "correct name" for this studio is "Twentieth Century Fox". There is no "rules-prescribed "correct name"" for any studio. | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | I would say this very simply based on my own my own philosophy as a Db designer. There is no such thing as too much data, as long as it is ACCURATE, this includes suffixes, locality notations, et al. Thus if it says Twentieth century-Fox, so it should be entered, the choice for Common names for Studiso becomes a local decision and not one dependent onsomeone trying to bend the database for his own purposes, after all there are 500,000 plus users. IMDb is the mess that it is because the users their are allowed to create their own interpretations of data regardless of the accuracy; i, for one, want better for Profiler.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: May 9, 2007 | Posts: 1,536 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark_Germ: Quote: Well, most DVDs I own are of German locality and there are a lot of "20th" instead of "Twentieth" entries... I guess most contributers just looked at the company-logo...
So maybe this could also be solved by using a filter like with 20th to Twentieth Century Home Entertainment. Or better still, a "Credited As" feature for studios. Ducking... | | | Hans |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Staid: Would you like to beaten now or later. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: It's just as you would link up your cast entries for someone who is credited sometimes with, and sometimes without the dash in his name. If it's the same person, we're supposed to maintain ONE entry for him. I don't see why studios should be treated any differently. Ah, but there is the rub. With actor credits, because of the 'credited as' system, both forms are preserved. With a common studio name, you lose one in favor of the other. So what you're saying is: we need a "credited as" system for studios. Well, I personally don't need it and am happy to just use the "correct name", but if it makes you happy, I'd be willing to support that. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: So what you're saying is: we need a "credited as" system for studios. Well, I personally don't need it and am happy to just use the "correct name", but if it makes you happy, I'd be willing to support that. I agree. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | The current "Credited As" function for cast and crew is a disaster, IMHO. If we are going to go down this road for studios, we need a different linking system as has been described by several users in this forum many times. No way do I want another disastrous "Credited As" system so that we can argue over whether a studio with one letter capitalized is the same as the exact same studio with the same letter in lower case! You would think that the user community would have learned from the past, but I guess not! | | | Hal | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: No way do I want another disastrous "Credited As" system so that we can argue over whether a studio with one letter capitalized is the same as the exact same studio with the same letter in lower case! And how is that any different from arguing over the difference between "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox"?! One of these debates is preferable over the other? I don't think so - they're the exact same thing. Again, I personally don't have a need for a "credited as" system for studios, but if certain people want to track that kind of name variations, then I think that's what they should lobby for. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: No way do I want another disastrous "Credited As" system so that we can argue over whether a studio with one letter capitalized is the same as the exact same studio with the same letter in lower case! And how is that any different from arguing over the difference between "Twentieth Century Fox" and "Twentieth Century-Fox"?! One of these debates is preferable over the other? I don't think so - they're the exact same thing. Again, I personally don't have a need for a "credited as" system for studios, but if certain people want to track that kind of name variations, then I think that's what they should lobby for. With a properly designed "linking" system, you would simply enter exactly what you see (as credited) and the linking would be done in the background. No "Common Name" to argue about at all. The program would have to include a table which tells it that 20th Century Fox = 20th Century-Fox = Twentieth Century Fox = Twentieth Century-Fox = Twentieth Century Fox Corporation, etc., etc. The only thing to argue about is whether 20th Century Fox = Twentieth Century Fox. These "equivalents" would have to be submitted through the contribution system and voted on by the community. It's not a difficult system to implement. | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: So what you're saying is: we need a "credited as" system for studios. Well, I personally don't need it and am happy to just use the "correct name", but if it makes you happy, I'd be willing to support that. That is not what I am saying. I don't need a 'credited as' system for studios because I can already figure out which studio names are variations of the same company. What I am saying is you need to keep your personal preferences local. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: What I am saying is you need to keep your personal preferences local. In that case: right back at ya! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Tim:
HGere we go with another edition of "Tim Has the Answers", brought to you by Procter & Gamble. Hint Unicus was involved in the Rule process, he is closer to the truth than you. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: HGere we go with another edition of "Tim Has the Answers", brought to you by Procter & Gamble. Hint Unicus was involved in the Rule process, he is closer to the truth than you. As always, I'm simply following the rules, Skip. That's all. I certainly don't expect to have ALL the answers, but if you can't work something out, feel free to ask. That's what I'm here for... | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | The problem tim, is that you don't have the answers, you have your version of what you think they are but you have absolutely NOTHINg upon which to base your assumption/ As I have stated before, you were not involved in the process in any way, why do you believe that you have better clarity than those that were involved and i am not referring necessarily to myself, you have been told many times by people other than me, but who were involved that you are WRONG, yet you believe you right. You also seem to believe that you aree now the spokesman and arbiter of the Rules. We know return you to your regularly scheduled soap opera.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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