| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
And you have to pick ONE...why, Tim. Because you always have to choose a common name if an actor is credited under more than one name? What's the difference between "Jan de Bont" vs "Jan De Bont" and "Mario Girotti" vs "Terrence Hill"? One is his common name, the other his Credited As name, "Jan de Bont" is not a different actor than "Jan De Bont" and neither are Hill and Girotti. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
And you have to pick ONE...why, Tim.
Because you always have to choose a common name if an actor is credited under more than one name?
What's the difference between "Jan de Bont" vs "Jan De Bont" and "Mario Girotti" vs "Terrence Hill"? One is his common name, the other his Credited As name, "Jan de Bont" is not a different actor than "Jan De Bont" and neither are Hill and Girotti. The only problem with this argument is that DVDP does not recognize the difference between 'Jan de Bont' and 'Jan De Bont' because it doesn't care about capitalization, so no Common Name is needed and it wouldn't make any difference. When you click on either version, you get the exact same results without the use of 'Common Names'. DVDP certainly does recognize the difference between 'Mario Girotti' and 'Terrence Hill', so it needs a 'Common Name'. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
And you have to pick ONE...why, Tim.
Because you always have to choose a common name if an actor is credited under more than one name?
What's the difference between "Jan de Bont" vs "Jan De Bont" and "Mario Girotti" vs "Terrence Hill"? One is his common name, the other his Credited As name, "Jan de Bont" is not a different actor than "Jan De Bont" and neither are Hill and Girotti.
The only problem with this argument is that DVDP does not recognize the difference between 'Jan de Bont' and 'Jan De Bont' because it doesn't care about capitalization, so no Common Name is needed and it wouldn't make any difference. When you click on either version, you get the exact same results without the use of 'Common Names'.
DVDP certainly does recognize the difference between 'Mario Girotti' and 'Terrence Hill', so it needs a 'Common Name'. What Hal said, Karsten. Skip<shakes head> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's no big deal that you don't comprehend a program limitation whe\ you se it, tim. But IT EXISTS and it does pose an inconvenience but once understood it is manageable. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Here's the deal for those that still don't seem to get it.
DVD Profiler can't distinguish between upper and lower case. Thus Jan De Bont is the same as Jan de Bont. You can have only one variant of this name in DVD Profiler therefore you must choose one or the other. Since the CLT can't distinguish between upper and lower case either, it is impossible to determine which variant is most commonly credited in the Invelos Database. "Credited as", according to the rules, is to be used when an actor's name (commonly credited) differs from the on-screen credit. What is happening here is that some users have Jan De Bont as the variant in their local database whilst others have Jan de Bont. The user that has Jan de Bont as his/her variant submits a profile with Jan de Bont [Jan De Bont]. What happens to the profile of the user who has Jan De Bont as his/her variant in their local database if he/she accepts this profile change? His/her profile now changes to Jan De Bont [Jan De Bont]. It is an exercise in futility. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection | | | | Last edited: by Bad Father |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
And you have to pick ONE...why, Tim.
Because it's the one and only correct thing to do: Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont are one and the same person, so there's no need for separate entries. You use the "most-credited form" as the common name, and use "credited as" for when the person is credited with the other variant. Quick question...if you can't enter both variants into the main DB, how do you determine which is the most credited form? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You can't, Unicus. I have said that for several years. It is Tim who seems to profess otherwise. I may choose De and you may choose de due to the limitation, it makes neither of them wrong based on OUR own data, the CLT is useless to derive the answer for this problem right now.
You can make a choice based on your data ONLY.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Because it's the one and only correct thing to do: Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont are one and the same person, so there's no need for separate entries. You use the "most-credited form" as the common name, and use "credited as" for when the person is credited with the other variant. Given that we all agree that Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont are the same person, who has determined which one is the "common name" and which one is the variant? Hmmm? The CRT doesn't differentiate between de and De, so how do you determine which is the "common" name? Quote:
I can't believe that after all this time, I still find myself having to explain the whole "credited as" system to you once more. IMHO, not allowing us to have separate, non-linking entries for both Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont in our local databases was a deliberate decision on Ken's part, which obviously doesn't need "fixing". If there's one thing we don't need, it's the ability to create even more double entries for the same people - instead we should be focussing on eliminating the existing ones. That's because your "explanation" doesn't address the problem. And no matter how many times you repeat that explanation, it is still as irrelevant as the first time you stated it. As long as our local database won't recognize upper/lower case we are always going to have some of our databases with (1) Jan de Bont [Jan De Bont] and others of us will have it (2) Jan De Bont [Jan de Bont]. Until Ken says the correct "variant" is (1) or revised the program to recognize upper/lower case, we will have people forever uploading (1) or (2) based on what's in their local database. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quick question...if you can't enter both variants into the main DB, how do you determine which is the most credited form? It's not pretty, but if you search on "jan de bont" in the CLT, then click on every single entry (told you it weren't pretty) then it shows you how each one is capitalised.  |
|
  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
And you have to pick ONE...why, Tim.
Because it's the one and only correct thing to do: Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont are one and the same person, so there's no need for separate entries. You use the "most-credited form" as the common name, and use "credited as" for when the person is credited with the other variant.
Quick question...if you can't enter both variants into the main DB, how do you determine which is the most credited form? Look up "jan de bont" in the CLT. It's a very tedious process, but if you really want to, you can click along the entries to see how he's entered in each of those entries...  Edit: I see that northbloke already said the exact same thing...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
|
| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
What happens to the profile of the user who has Jan De Bont as his/her variant in their local database if he/she accepts this profile change? His/her profile now changes to Jan De Bont [Jan De Bont]. No, it doesn't. The software specifically ignores such changes to "protect" your local database against such updates. If you have "Jan de Bont" and you accept a profile that includes a change to "Jan De Bont", your "Jan de Bont" entry will NOT change! Something I'm very grateful for, by the way! | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
|
| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
As long as our local database won't recognize upper/lower case we are always going to have some of our databases with
(1) Jan de Bont [Jan De Bont] and others of us will have it
(2) Jan De Bont [Jan de Bont].
Until Ken says the correct "variant" is (1) or revised the program to recognize upper/lower case, we will have people forever uploading (1) or (2) based on what's in their local database. I agree with that completely, and I have obviously never claimed otherwise. There's plenty of work for Ken to do on the subject, but that should NOT include adding the ability to have co-existing yet separate entries for both Jan de Bont and Jan De Bont in our local databases. That won't help at all, and will even make things worse. |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting cvermeylen: Quote:
I have question regarding Speed. A user is updating the Netherlands locality profile of Speed.
You can clearly see that the E is in a smaller font, indicating he is credited as Jan De Bont.
I'm interesting in other opinions on this one. Do I keep my no vote, or do I go along with the change?
Regards How is he credited in the END credits ? Because Invelos' prefered source is the End credits first and the spelling could be different between the Opening and the End credits. |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tarantino: Quote:
How is he credited in the END credits ?
Because Invelos' prefered source is the End credits first and the spelling could be different between the Opening and the End credits. The closest we get in the end credits is a credit for: "Assistant to Mr. De Bont" (exactly as written), he doesn't get a repeat credit himself. |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
What happens to the profile of the user who has Jan De Bont as his/her variant in their local database if he/she accepts this profile change? His/her profile now changes to Jan De Bont [Jan De Bont].
No, it doesn't. The software specifically ignores such changes to "protect" your local database against such updates. If you have "Jan de Bont" and you accept a profile that includes a change to "Jan De Bont", your "Jan de Bont" entry will NOT change! Something I'm very grateful for, by the way! I'm well aware of that fact T!m. My example showed what happens when "credited as" is employed. This just happened within the last couple of days. My Jan De Bont now looks like Jan De Bont [Jan De Bont]. I only accepted this profile change because there were other changes to the cast. I've since cleared out the "credited as" field for Jan De Bont and it is now just Jan De Bont  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
|
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting tarantino:
Quote:
How is he credited in the END credits ?
Because Invelos' prefered source is the End credits first and the spelling could be different between the Opening and the End credits.
The closest we get in the end credits is a credit for: "Assistant to Mr. De Bont" (exactly as written), he doesn't get a repeat credit himself. Thanks for clearing that up. |
|