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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Kelly Collins Lintz parsing |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: try to make a new cast entry in your local database by entering "Kelly Collins Lintz" and then click on "Add Cast Member", and see what how the program parses it. There you go.
What are you now implying? Kelly Collins Lintz can be entered several ways in the program? are you saying this should be ignored: Quote: Many people's names include one or more middle names, placed between the first given name and the surname. In the West, a middle name is effectively a second given name. In the Anglosphere there is usually only one middle name, often abbreviated by its possessor to the middle initial or omitted entirely in everyday use. | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: For those that really crave such a "default" system, the closest hint we've got is the way the software deals with three-piece names itself: try to make a new cast entry in your local database by entering "Kelly Collins Lintz" and then click on "Add Cast Member", and see what how the program parses it. There you go. Hmmm. By this methodology Michael J. Fox's last name "J. Fox".
The software's silly parsing methodology means nothing other than it needs fixed. Note that I stressed that I wasn't implying that this actually MEANT anything - I was just reaching out to those that falsely think there was ever any indication from Invelos on how to parse three-piece names. This - silly as it may be - is the closest to anything official on the subject we've ever got. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,372 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: Absolutely CORRECT, Giga. As I pointed out, in fact is entirely possible that Collins is not even her maiden name...it could be. It could also be merely a middle name chosen by her family and including the name of a family from their tree or a friend... we simply don't know.
Skip Actually we do know. Our own CLT shows her listed in her earlier work as Kelly Collins as does every other site out there. Some things are very easy to prove. Why you always take such a hard line on this topic is beyond me. There is no default way to parse a name based on the current rules. And with the common name it matters even less. You always enter these threads with guns drawn and heels dug in. It wont be long and we'll be reading about Grandma Magly again IMO the name should be K/C/L but we have her official site with contact information so to whomever it's that important I suggest you cantact her directly and ask. @Berak - RHo is correct. Even if the info is wrong you need to document your change to get it right. Use the official site I linked. That should be enough. The good new for Ms. Lintz is her IMDb rating should go up after this thread |
| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,665 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: This - silly as it may be - is the closest to anything official on the subject we've ever got. Which i think means we have nothing official on the subject. | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote: are you saying this should be ignored:
Quote: (some stuff from Wikipedia) I wasn't actually saying anything - I haven't even given my opinion on how to parse Kelly Collins Lintz. I'm just saying that we have NO standard for parsing whatsoever. I do feel that we need a standard - or better yet: a single name field! - but currently, there is no standard. I can't stress that enough: if Ken keeps ignoring the problem, it'll never get solved. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: For those that really crave such a "default" system, the closest hint we've got is the way the software deals with three-piece names itself: try to make a new cast entry in your local database by entering "Kelly Collins Lintz" and then click on "Add Cast Member", and see what how the program parses it. There you go. Hmmm. By this methodology Michael J. Fox's last name "J. Fox".
The software's silly parsing methodology means nothing other than it needs fixed. Tweeter: It's not the software, it some users who simply love to take something simple and twist it into a pretzel. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: This - silly as it may be - is the closest to anything official on the subject we've ever got. Which i think means we have nothing official on the subject. Which is, indeed, what I was saying all along. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: I was just reaching out to those that falsely think there was ever any indication from Invelos on how to parse three-piece names reaching out hands and already proclaiming the others are falsely think! The program tells you: First Name: Last Name: Middle Name: that is a concept not? First/Middle/Last | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Not to Rho and Tim.
Some of us try and keep things simple, some like to complicate things if they can and others pretend to have complete knowledge about names and know precoisely how ALL names are handled.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | I'm the one who voted NO on Berak's contribution changing the parsing of Kelly//Collins Lintz to Kelly/Collins/Lintz, and the reason I voted NO was because there was no documentation supporting the change, whether it be right or wrong...period. By my NO vote I am not claiming he was wrong, only that he lacked the proper supporting documentation for the change. Thank you for participating and pick up your Door Prize on the way out . | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection | | | Last edited: by Bad Father |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote: that is a concept not? First/Middle/Last Yes, and what makes you think "Collins" is her middle name, and not part of her last name? Remember that we parse Helena Bonham Carter as H//B C. So you see: there is no standard, and it's being decided on a case-by-case basis. The field names are not the solution - in fact, they're a big part of the problem. In large parts of the world, "Collins" would never be considered a "middle name", and as such, lots of users won't enter it as such. Trust me - I'm speaking from frequent experience - if you submit something like Kelly/Collins/Lintz into, say, a German profile without solid proof, you'll get plenty of no-votes. Even if we forum users come to a consenses, the bulk of the users (far beyond 95%) that never ever visit the forums, will remain doing what they feel is correct, even dictated by the field names. Ken really needs to address this in the rules. I don't care how, and I'll even take a solution that I don't like personally, but we do really need a hard and fast way to get all users around the world on the same page. As it is, there are separate, non-linking entries for essentially EVERY three-piece name out there. For the record: I've checked my local database, and I have her parsed as K/C/L. So you don't need to try and convince me - I'm just saying that there has never even been a hint of any kind of standard, and we desperately need one. It's clear that Skip has devised a standard that works for him, and that's fine, but thousands of other users have devised their own standard as well, and the rules don't declare any of them to be the "better" method. The screeners are approving either variant on a day to day basis as well. As long as there's no rule change, different users will keep handling these differently. One of my main DVD Profiler concerns is "how to cut back on all those separate, non-linking entries for the same people in the Invelos database?" - and parsing (along with suffixes with and without the comma) is responsible for a big part of these, and again: there's no chance of solving it unless Ken addresses it in the rules. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Yes, and what makes you think "Collins" is her middle name, and not part of her last name? Why thinking: Either find the evidence it is not a middle name or enter the name 1/2/3/ Quote: Remember that we parse Helena Bonham Carter as H//B C Yes, after there was evidence that this was not here middle name. the diversity starts when users copying IMDB data in to DVD Profiler and claiming it comes from the end credits. | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Tim: Your wrong again. there has been the hint of a standard many times before. But, itt is a standard you are unwilling to accept, you want to complicate things, ALWAYS and never keep them simple. This is not a new discussion or argument, it has been had numerous times with the same result every time. Rather than try and keep things simple, your answer is always the same a cry for Ken to take away from his development time to provide you with an answer because you don't want to do it EASY. Then you would much prefer to sit there and blow smoke to confuse everyone else...but don't feel bad..you are not alone. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | I'm sorry, Skip, but it's you that is wrong. Again: this is not about me - as I said, I currently have her parsed as K/C/L. I just have a problem with your denial of the fact that there is in fact a big problem in that we don't have any kind standard, and different users are entering the same names parsed differently. As I've seen you do on several other occasions, you're just dismissing the problem because you don't see it too much. Living in R2 (where "middle name" mostly means something else than it does to most users in R1), I run into this problem almost every single day. You probably don't, so you dismiss it. That doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, though: look through the CLT and you'll find that there are multiple entries for about EVERY three-piece name out there. Given that for most people, there's no "proof" of what the correct parsing method is, and that means that once accepted, it gets very hard to change the parsing, especially in smaller localities. As long as we don't have a hard and fast rule to point to, these superfluous double entries simply will not get cleaned up. Now this may not affect my local database, or yours, but it's a problem nonetheless. Again: I'm willing to take any decision on this made by Ken, but he DOES really have to make one.
I fully understand that you don't have a problem in your local database - I don't either. My concern is with the countless double entries in the Invelos database. Unless Ken addresses parsing somehow, they will not get cleaned up. You may choose to ignore it, and you can try to discredit me all you like - even though I've parsed Kelly Collins Lintz the same as you - but it doesn't make the problem go away. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | My position Tim is where it has always been, no difference and that is the SIMPLE answer that has been spelled out by both myself and Giiga, And I am glad that you this one done correctly. but you are once again blowing smoke and instead of simply leaving it alone, you are trying to complicate things again. After all it dares not be easy, when you can turn it upside down and inside out. Just keep your smoke machine handy, it won't be long before you get the chance to use it again. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | I'll repeat: feel free to try to discredit me all you like - I can take it - but it won't make the problem go away. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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