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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
The Unsaid: disc-id 28CA3981D20E7635 [THE_UNSAID]
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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DVD profiler can handle it without any problem, drop the rule that requires you to have the same cover as on the DVD box. What is useless information. You go for the first released cover of the disc-id, the stand alone movie. As the disc-id is for the movie and not for a dvd box. DVD box information should stay on the Box profile, movie information should stay on the identical disc-id.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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And what if they use the same Disc ID for a Re-release. Yes I know re-release's will not be accepted into the online DB.

But Alien DVD stand alone, Alien 1 & 2 & Quadrology all have the same Disc ID in some sets.

Steve
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long disc-id for the same movie? like this(28CA3981D20E7635 [THE_UNSAID]) or the short
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
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DVD profiler can handle it without any problem, drop the rule that requires you to have the same cover as on the DVD box. What is useless information. You go for the first released cover of the disc-id, the stand alone movie. As the disc-id is for the movie and not for a dvd box. DVD box information should stay on the Box profile, movie information should stay on the identical disc-id.

DVD Profiler can hand a lot of things without any problems but which violate the rules.  Just because it's possible to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.  We aren't free to "drop the rule" just because it doesn't make sense.  The way to do this is to post it in the Contribution Rules Committee forum and (1) convince everybody to do it your way and then (2) wait until Ken/Gerri change the rule.  Until then, you are violating the rule to do what you suggest -- even if it makes more sense than duplicating the parent images for 40 child profiles.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Exactly!

Moreover: DVDP does not profile movies, it profiles DVD releases. To identify these we first have the EAN/UPC (used for the stand-alone release), then Disc ID (in this case used by the Moviepower release). For any subsequent release (whether it's a re-release of the stand-alone or a different box set) we need a different identifier. At present, we don't have any, sorry. But this WOULD be the "royal" way to solve the problem, not twisting the rules as you see fit.
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So negative,  i'm not twisting the rules, where do you get that?. There is a problem: a unique disc-id, 28CA3981D20E7635 [THE_UNSAID] dvd gets saddled up with information of a DVD box. There should not be information of a main profile in the child profile, the only linking should be to the parent by linking it with the dvd box set contents in the parent profile. So you always have in all cases the correct information for all profiles, and not in this one dvd box case.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
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Negative? It wasn't me who started talking about "dropping rules", now was it?

The problem is NOT that a disc ID profile is getting information from a box set profile. As many users have already pointed out, the contribution rules TELL you to take covers and overview from the appropriate box set profile (you may not like this rule, but that's another story and another type of discussion). In this case the problem is that that disc ID is getting information (covers and overview) from the WRONG box set profile due to a lack of identifiers to separate the two box sets at disc level. In other words: the problem is that the same Disc ID appears in two different box sets.

It is by no means unique that the same disc ID appears in both a stand-alone release and a box set - this happens all the time. I have plenty of such cases in my collection. Usually it's not a problem, as you can separate the two profiles by contributing the stand-alone by EAN and the box set disc by Disc ID - and then there is no need to use info from one profile in the other. In this particular case, the situation is different, as I've mentioned before, and yes, you're right, there is a problem - no mistake there.

May I suggest a workaround for your particular case which is within the current rules? What you could do is take advantage from the fact that the localities Netherlands and Belgium share many DVD releases. As far as I can see, the box set Best of Moviepower 2 does NOT have a profile in the Belgium locality, only in the Netherlands locality. This gives you the opportunity to create a parent profile AND the matching child profiles for the box set you have with Belgium as a locality. Your "The Unsaid" disc should, according to the current contribution rules, then get the cover from the box set you own as well as the overview that your box set provides. Thus, you would no longer have to cope with covers and an overview from a box set you don't own.

I know this still is not what you would consider to be the best option, however it is the best one I can think of within the current rules. Now how's that for a positive contribution to the discussion? 

BTW, I'm curious what sort of release your box set is. I can't find it in any Dutch web shop, and even the distribution company's website (www.dfw.nl) doesn't mention it. Could this perhaps be some sort of special release for a particular chain of shops, newspaper or magazine? If so, and if that chain, newspaper or magazine is Belgian, then Belgium should be the locality anyway...
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
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Quoting dee1959jay:
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Negative? It wasn't me who started talking about "dropping rules", now was it?

again where do you see me stating: "dropping rules"? and no your solution to create a Belgium profile to my preference is not a solution as this would be against the current rules.
All I know there from: Dutch Filmworks B.V. there are several boxes like that.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
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and no your solution to create a Belgium profile to my preference is not a solution as this would be against the current rules.



And Why exactly? Martin_Z has done quite a few that he has contributed to the UK locality despite being told that Without a BBFC certificate they are Illegal to be sold in the UK, but that hasn't bothered him.

Steve
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Registered: March 19, 2007
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
DVD profiler can handle it without any problem, drop the rule that requires you to have the same cover as on the DVD box. What is useless information. You go for the first released cover of the disc-id, the stand alone movie. As the disc-id is for the movie and not for a dvd box. DVD box information should stay on the Box profile, movie information should stay on the identical disc-id.


Here you are.

As far as my suggestion goes: it's your own choice to take it on board or not. But I would argue it's not against the rules, as DFW releases titles for both the Dutch and the Belgian (Flemish) markets. BTW I never suggested to create a Belgium profile to your preference, I suggested to create a Belgium profile for your box set (parent and children) in agreement with the current rules. I even pointed out specifically that this would only partly address your personal preferences.

@ Steve: your comparison is  a bit flawed, as there is nothing illegal about this release being sold in Belgium. It is VERY common to encounter so-called Benelux releases, and Belgium even uses the Dutch rating system for DVD releases (they only have their own rating system for theatrical releases). So I think my suggestion is 100% within both the law and the contribution rules.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
DVD profiler can handle it without any problem, drop the rule that requires you to have the same cover as on the DVD box. What is useless information. You go for the first released cover of the disc-id, the stand alone movie. As the disc-id is for the movie and not for a dvd box. DVD box information should stay on the Box profile, movie information should stay on the identical disc-id.


Here you are.


as you may notice rules <> rule that requires you to have the same cover as on the DVD box
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
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I was talking about the phenomenon of dropping rules in general, not about dropping THE or ALL rules.

Edit: besides: you would also need to drop the current rule on where to take the overview from to be able to accommodate your personal preferences. Hence a change of "rules" (plural) would be needed to meet your personal requirements.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantAgrare
Registered: May 22, 2007
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I fail to see how this is essentially any different than the re-release cover art problem. You use the cover art of the earliest release when the upc/ean is the same. The box set release (of the movie) doesn't have a upc/ean (and that could be the only difference in packaging) so you use the disc ID to profile it. This happens many times with box sets where the children have their own cover art, just no upc. We don't use the single release for the child in these cases even if they share the same disc id we make a new profile by disc id.

the 'simplest' solution (for the cover) is actually one that has been asked for various times in the past and that is to allow multiple covers for a single profile and let the user select which to use. However without this handle it the same way you handle re-releases (or even just preferring a different cover) and replace the cover with the one you want locally.

as for the overview i think this rule could apply:
Quote:
When there is no overview on the case, add a simple, self-written overview of 1-2 paragraphs. Do not include spoilers and always match the overview language to the profile's locality.


though perhaps a rule (clarification) could be added that for box set children that don't have an individual/movie specific overview you can use an overview from a similar single release of the same movie (language would need to match locality, sharing the disc ID would be preferred) and if non exist than a self-written overview as per the rule above.

-Agrare
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
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Fully agree, Agrare!

With regard to Overview, this particular case was a little different. The same disc ID appeared in two different box sets (and a stand alone edition with an EAN of its own). The existing profile by disc ID came with an overview taken from the box set's cover. What Giga wanted to do was replace it with the stand alone edition's overview. And that's a violation of the rules, because the box set's case DID provide an overview, just one he didn't like.

I would agree to a rule clarification as you proposed, just not if the box set itself DOES provide a movie specific overview, as was the case here. More fundamentally: I would be opposed to any rule change that involves overwriting information from the release that's being profiled itself with information from a different release, because that would violate one of the most fundamental principles of DVDP, i.e. that the information in a profile should - if possible in any way - come from the disc or cover of the particular release being profiled.
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