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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,242 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: Which doesn't matter as all Ken wants at this time is the most commonly credited name... he was very clear about that and was very clear with the only exception being if the Credit Look-up Tool is documented as being wrong. He did not make any exception for names we believe will change in the near or distant future. I see your point Pete and Ken's, but in the case of a female actor this could change yet going on this synopsis the CLT will never show the correct amount of credits. Why? A.Actress (under maiden name Actress) makes 5 films CLT = A.Actress 5 film she marries A. Better (new surname) makes 7 films CLT = A.Better 7 films credits for A.Actress now have to be change to show most common CLT = A.Better 12 films she now divorces goes back to A.Actress makes another 5 films make 10 as A.Actress (total), 7 as A.Better, but the original A.Actress have been eradicated by the CLT linking to common name yet the film count has changed to A.Actress 10>7. If you as a new submitter not knowing that A.Actress already has credits as A.Actress you as per the Rules must follow the CLT which means the CLT will never be corrected to show the correct number of credits as per the name. As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT. She may then re-marry again and become A.Star and make an even larger number of films which would throw every thing into chaos again. The only time an actress is beyond being able to change her name (or make any new films come to think of it) is once she is Deceased, then and only then will the CLT be able to show the Most Commonly Credited Name. Steve |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting snarbo: Quote: As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT. Which is exactly what I meant with my statement on page 1 about the CLT becoming "polluted". | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting snarbo: Quote:
As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT.
Wrong If she is credited as A.Actress in five films, the CLT will ALWAYS show that, regardless of what you select as common name. The CLT looks at the 'credited as' field and not the common name when it counts profiles Quote:
A.Actress (under maiden name Actress) makes 5 films CLT = A.Actress 5 film she marries A. Better (new surname) makes 7 films CLT = A.Better 7 films credits for A.Actress now have to be change to show most common CLT = A.Better 12 films
Your math is wrong here. The CLT will not report A.Better 12 films, regardless of what you select as common name. It will always show A.Actress 5 films and A.Better 7 films. The CLT will show what is entered in the credited as field. | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | Last edited: by reybr |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Ken has stated that the credit look-up tool goes by the "Credited As" field... if the Credited as field is not changed it goes by the name field... so no names get lost. As long as the names are right in the profile (per the credits whether using the name field or the credit as field) their name will be counted right. So there is no way that I see that the name will be eradicated as you said... they will still be there and show up.
Ken did not give us that ability/right to make the decision to ignore the look-up tool for women actors just because their name could very easily change.
We need to go by the rules and Ken's statements only... we can not ignore a rule or what Ken said he wants just because we do not agree with said rule.
At this point... till Ken changes his mind at least... we can only go with his rules/wishes for the online database... whether we agree with it or not. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote: Quoting snarbo:
Quote: As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT. Which is exactly what I meant with my statement on page 1 about the CLT becoming "polluted". But that is not how it works as it looks at the Credited as field not the name field. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: Quoting snarbo:
Quote:
As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT.
Wrong
If she is credited as A.Actress in five films, the CLT will ALWAYS show that, regardless of what you select as common name.
The CLT looks at the 'credited as' field and not the common name when it counts profiles yes... thank you. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,242 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: Quoting snarbo:
Quote:
As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT.
Wrong
If she is credited as A.Actress in five films, the CLT will ALWAYS show that, regardless of what you select as common name.
The CLT looks at the 'credited as' field and not the common name when it counts profiles And what if the 5 as A.Actress, 7 as A.Better were enter into the online before the CLT became active until somebody actually links the fact that the actress is one and the same the link would not be there, so it brings you back to the same situation, 5 for 1st 7 for 2nd somebody makes the link 1st name & 2nd name are the same actress. Steve |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 2,366 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: But that is not how it works as it looks at the Credited as field not the name field. Which is true if everybody would actually use that field, but there are numerous cases where only her present common name is used and therefore makes the CLT to show the incorrect number of credited as names. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | And in cases where the credited name is not right in the profile... we need to do as ken said... best way is to fix the profiles... other then that document that it is wrong. Edit: Quoting Ken Cole:Quote: The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted, however it does outweigh other sources, including autographs. The common name is not intended to always reflect the "real name", but the most commonly credited name.
However, if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Better yet, correct the entries, assuming you own the discs in question, thereby correcting the lookup results. Ken's own words above... see part I put in bold. | | | Pete | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting snarbo: Quote: Quoting reybr:
Quote: Quoting snarbo:
Quote:
As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT.
Wrong
If she is credited as A.Actress in five films, the CLT will ALWAYS show that, regardless of what you select as common name.
The CLT looks at the 'credited as' field and not the common name when it counts profiles
And what if the 5 as A.Actress, 7 as A.Better were enter into the online before the CLT became active until somebody actually links the fact that the actress is one and the same the link would not be there, so it brings you back to the same situation, 5 for 1st 7 for 2nd somebody makes the link 1st name & 2nd name are the same actress.
Steve As I stated above... Ken already commented on this situation... if not in the database correct... then document it being wrong... or better yet fix the wrong ones so the look-up tool becomes right. | | | Pete |
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Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,807 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: Quoting reybr:
Quote: Quoting snarbo:
Quote:
As you would have to enter A.Better (credited As A.Actress) which does not alter the count in the CLT.
Wrong
If she is credited as A.Actress in five films, the CLT will ALWAYS show that, regardless of what you select as common name.
The CLT looks at the 'credited as' field and not the common name when it counts profiles
yes... thank you. Correct. As long as users are very careful when they''re editing common names:. Quoting goodguy from a previous thread: Quote:
In the local DVD Profiler, the tables "ACTORASSGN" and "CreditsAssign" each hold a field "CREDITED_AS". This field is empty in most records. The display of CreditedAs in the Edit window in these cases is provided by program logic, which falls back to generating the CreditedAs name from the common name if it is not present. Likewise, it empties the table field if you save an entry where you have entered a CreditedAs name that matches the common name.
A problem with that approach arises, if you change the common name of a cast or crew member via DVD Profiler.
Assume, you have a common name "John||Doe Jr." In Profile_1, "John||Doe Jr." is credited as "John Doe Jr.". An empty CreditedAs value is stored. In Profile_2, "John||Doe Jr." is credited as "John Doe, Jr.". The given CreditedAs value is stored.
Now you edit some profile and change the common name "John||Doe Jr." to "John||Doe, Jr." This will not change any of the stored CreditedAs values.
As a result, Profile_1 no longer matches the credits, because the formerly identical CreditedAs name was not stored.
Please note that this problem does not occur if you use the Name Variants plugin to pick a common name. | | | -- Enry |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,242 |
| Posted: | | | | Quote:
Your math is wrong here. The CLT will not report A.Better 12 films, regardless of what you select as common name. It will always show A.Actress 5 films and A.Better 7 films. The CLT will show what is entered in the credited as field. Unless the credits for 1st name and 2nd name were already profiled before the CLT became active, and somebody making the link between the actress at a later date. As pointed out HereI had a case recently concerning Stargate SG-1: The Ark of Truth for the credit of Prior #5 Ian A. Wallace (credited as Ian Wallace) I was told I was wrong because the CLT credited Ian Wallace (who turn out to be Ian Wallace (BY 1919) main film Tom Thumb), sorry not the same actor, but the US R1 profiles say it is. That being the case CLT is wrong, but when I point out mistakes all I get back is BUT CLT SAYS IT IS until CLT has the correct data in it in the first place CLT will never be correct. You can't credit Colin Farrell (Phone Booth, BY 1976) with a film made with Colin Farrell (Blaes Seven, BY 1938) produced in 1974 just because the CLT has the wrong Data. Steve |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | That is where documenting when it is wrong comes in. Will you still get no votes... possibly... but in such cases I would PM no voter pointing to Ken's statement with the documentation that it is wrong and that should take care of it. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,242 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: That is where documenting when it is wrong comes in. Will you still get no votes... possibly... but in such cases I would PM no voter pointing to Ken's statement with the documentation that it is wrong and that should take care of it. This I did but it still does not alter the fact if you look up Ian Wallace in the CLT and look at the actual films credited they actually are spread over four (4) different Ian Wallaces, and since the only title I own is the R2 UK version of Stargate SG-1: The Ark of Truth it is not my place to tell the US R1 owners to get thier profiles right or the owners of the other Ian Wallace's films. But because of the data being incorrect wether intentionally or because other don't research if they have the correct actor in the first place, should not mean we must all blindly follow CLT because it says A=B. Steve noticed a typo: reason for edit. | | | Last edited: by snarbo |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | But that is all we can do for now... I brought this to ken's attention... and the last I heard he was looking into how to fix it... Quoting Ken Cole:Quote: Currently the index is not built to consider birth years. I'll add it to my list for further investigation. The complication is that the lookup goes based on the Credited As field, which does not have a direct tie to birth year. The birth year is tied to the common name entered for that credit, which is not considered for the lookup tool. Still, possibly there's a way to make it work. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,242 |
| Posted: | | | | I think it should be looked at to include more than just the BY
suppose
Actor name Credit as Ian A. Wallace Ian Wallace Ian B. Wallace Ian Wallace Ian C. Wallace Ian Wallace Ian D. Wallace Ian Wallace
four different actors that we don't need BY for as their physical name are different, but the Credited As all equal Ian Wallace CLT says 1 Ian Wallace but actual name says 4
CLT cannot work this way, I did look up Ian Wallace on the CLT myself after my previous post and yes CLT does state Ian Wallace as Prior #5 for the UK profile, which includes credits where he has not appeared in so therefore CLT is incorrect for Ian Wallace, there should be a way to seperate 1 from another.
Steve | | | Last edited: by snarbo |
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