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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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"Illustrated by" valid for Original Material? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's not how I read it, Rho. I see a writer and an illustrator, based on the data provided I do not see anything that resembles "Based on the Novel illustrated by". So either you are saying the data that has benn presented is not presented the way it is On screen, which I doubt or you are creating an interpretation of the On Screen data. Judging the data only, because I think you are creating an interpretation and not reporting factual information. The information provided leads to only one conclusion, we have NO provision for Illustrated by therefore he does not get credited in Profiler Online, if he wants it creditred in hius local that is up to him.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | FWIW: When I did the V For Vendetta profile a long time ago, I actually gave David Lloyd (graphic novel illustrator) OMB credit. I don't remember my exact reasoning behind it now, but it seemed appropriate at the time. I wouldn't vote against such a contribution, but then I wouldn't insist on an OMB credit either... The rules always were a bit vague regarding original material. A "material" could be almost anything... | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
No illustrated by, why would we. He didn't write anything, it says he drew pretty pictures and we don't have a credit for drawing pictures.
Skip We don't have a credit for writing novels either. We have a credit for Original Material. We can't assume that the Rules refer to writing the text in the OM more than to illustrating it. All we know is that the studio credited both the writer and the illustrator in the BASED ON credits, so they think the illustrator is relevant too, in this case. I say we go with the studio. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Enry:
Give me a break. Writing is different from drawing pcitures. Granted the drawing can inspire the writing but it remains artwork not words. We have no way to accomodate Illustrated by.Without trying to rationalize the answer, you can determine this for yourself. Where in any part of the Rules or the program do you see "Illustrated by', answer you won't because we don't provide for it. It is a very SIMPLE answer
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | As was pointed out "material" is far to vague to definitively rule out much of anything. Any more than "characters" does. How many such credits does Jack Kirby have? Or Joe Shuster? |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | The rules only state "material" not text.
Who's the say the film wasn't based on the illustrations as much as the words? Film is a visual medium after all and so it's perfectly reasonable for it to be based on other visual medium as much as textual medium.
If the studios considered his illustrations important enough to be credited, I think an OMB is perfectly acceptable. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't see that, bob. I see the category of WRITING, I don't see anything that refers to any kind of ARTWORK, as i see it this has now become an attempt to rationalize outside the Rules data for whicjh we have absolutely no reference. this is strictly a local issue NOT an Online. Artwork is NOT writing in any way shape or form. Jack Kirby is merely a diversion, we don't deal in anything beyond the film credits, you and I both know that Jack Kirbywas an ARTIST BUT in at least the FF he was ACTUALLY credited with OCB along with Stan Lee, as I recall his credit actually read Characters Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, no mention of the ARTWORK. We simply have no provision for this in terms of the online, once again this is a very simple concept to grasp unless one is trying to rationalize the use of data which for our purposes at this time would illegal. Don't give me hyperbole, Bob, deal in FACTUAL data, where do you find Illustrated by in the Rules orthe program.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 14, 2007 | | Posts: 433 |
| | Posted: | | | | If we are deciding not to give OMB credit to the artists on the Original Comics/Graphic Novel for the movies based on them, then I guess we have a few profiles to update. From my collection alone.
These guys only "drew pretty pictures"
30 Days of Night - Remove Ben Templesmith
Fantastic 4 - Remove Jack Kirby
From Hell - Remove Eddie Campbell
History of Violence - Remove Vince Locke
Invincible Iron Man - Remove Steve Ditko
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - Remove Kevin O'Neill
Road to Perdition - Remove Richard Piers Rayner
Spider-Man 1,2,3 - Remove Steve Ditko
Ultimate Avengers 2 - Remove Bryan Hitch
V for Vendetta - Remove David Lloyd | | | | Chris |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to agree with Skip on this one. The category for the credit in the Credit Table is Writing. There is no provision in the table to accomodate Illustrated by. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Cmae: What is the On Screen CREDIT, is thus hard to grasp. I outlined what the jack kirby On Screen was. You are trying to make this into something it is not. It is about the ON SCREEN credit. We have a category WRITING, that category does not include "Illustrated by", so that credit does not get used in ANY way.<tic> You go with what the On Screen Credit says NOTHING MORE nothing less, do not provide an interpretaion to fit a round peg into a square hole. I don't care what the guy did relative to say Spiderman, the only thing that is important is how he is CREDITED in the film, not the comics, not some book, nort any other reference, THE FILM. PERIOD Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | 30 Days of Night - "Based on the IDW Publishing Comic by Steve Niles and Ben Templesmith"
Fantastic 4 - "Based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby"
From Hell - "Based on the Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell"
History of Violence - "Based on the Graphic Novel by John Wagner and Vince Locke"
Invincible Iron Man - Don't own this title
League of Extraordinary Gentleman - "Based Upon the Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill"
Spider-Man 1,2,3 - "Based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko"
Ultimate Avengers 2 - Don't own this title
V for Vendetta - "Based of the Graphic Novel Illustrated by David LLoyd"
You be the judge. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
30 Days of Night - "Based on the IDW Publishing Comic by Steve Niles and Ben Templesmith"
Fantastic 4 - "Based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby"
From Hell - "Based on the Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell"
History of Violence - "Based on the Graphic Novel by John Wagner and Vince Locke"
Invincible Iron Man - Don't own this title
League of Extraordinary Gentleman - "Based Upon the Graphic Novel by Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill"
Spider-Man 1,2,3 - "Based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko"
Ultimate Avengers 2 - Don't own this title
V for Vendetta - "Based of the Graphic Novel Illustrated by David LLoyd"
You be the judge. Then in my eyes David Lloyd has to be removed from the profiles of "V for Vendetta", except he is credited as author somewhere else in the list. For the other titles it should remain as OMB for the illustrators. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting goblinsdoitall: Quote:
Then in my eyes David Lloyd has to be removed from the profiles of "V for Vendetta", except he is credited as author somewhere else in the list.
For the other titles it should remain as OMB for the illustrators. I think the point Max was trying to make is, none of the people on that list are credited as 'illustrator'. 'Fantastic 4' does not say, "Based on the Marvel Comic Book written by Stan Lee and illustrated by Jack Kirby." Because of that, cmaeditor's argument is flawed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting goblinsdoitall:
Quote:
Then in my eyes David Lloyd has to be removed from the profiles of "V for Vendetta", except he is credited as author somewhere else in the list.
For the other titles it should remain as OMB for the illustrators.
I think the point Max was trying to make is, none of the people on that list are credited as 'illustrator'.
'Fantastic 4' does not say, "Based on the Marvel Comic Book written by Stan Lee and illustrated by Jack Kirby."
Because of that, cmaeditor's argument is flawed. They aren't credited as writers either. I'm inclined to think it's the "Based on" that matters, not if it's writing or drawing. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
They aren't credited as writers either. I'm inclined to think it's the "Based on" that matters, not if it's writing or drawing. That's the way I look at it. Even if it said "Based on an obscene cartoon drawn on a napkin by Stephen King" I'd still give Stephen King an OMB credit. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
They aren't credited as writers either. I'm inclined to think it's the "Based on" that matters, not if it's writing or drawing. I see where you are coming from but there is a distinction being made here. In the case of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, they are credited together. That tells me that they created that comic book character together. In this case, Neil Gaiman and Charles Vess are credited seperately. One is credited as the writer, the other as the illustrator. That tells me that one created the story and the other created illustrations based on that story. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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