Quoting kdh1949:

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Quoting T!M:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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I agree with that Cubby. The Greatest American Hero is a Song, Magnum PI is NOT.

Absolutely wrong. Again, you're all bringing outside definitions into this, that don't have any bearing on how we look at things for DVD Profiler purposes. But again: let's not go there... Neither of us will ever relent, so there's just no use.

What's most important is that both parties should agree that theme writers do NOT qualify for a "composer" credit under any circumstance. It's simply not allowed by the rules,

Welllll ... not exactly.

What's clearly not allowed by the rules -- as you show when you bring over part of the table from the rules are "Songs by" or "Song/Music Writers"  -- so it DOES matter your definition of a song.  I would argue that a theme is not necessarily a song -- especially if it doesn't include words or vocals -- but it IS definitely a composition -- thus a Composer credit could be appropriate.

Here we go again. Is John Ottman credited with "Music by", "Music Composed by", "Score by" or "Score Composed by", or anything remotely like it? Was he "the composer of the film's Original Score"? No! Therefore we can't give him a "composer" credit. It really is as easy as that, and the term "song" doesn't even enter into it.

I do see where you come from. You think: the guy composed something, so he's a "composer". He is, of course: I won't disagree. Every "song", with or without lyrics, is "composed" as well. However, they're just not the composer of the film's original score. This was discussed last week as well, with regards to "additional music by". There too, people argued that the person involved composed music, so he should be a "composer". However, the bottom line is the same: he's not the composer of the film's original score, so giving him a joint "composer" credit together with the ACTUAL composer is not allowed. The screeners agreed on this, by the way, despite similar voting results as in this poll. You do realise, of course, that the logic you're displaying above - "it IS definitely a composition" - would also allow every "additional music by" credit to result in a "composer" credit? Even someone who "composed" the music of an original song is a "composer" and should be credited as such, according to your logic - only lyricists could get "song writer" credits...     

Again: I do understand the feeling that everyone who "composed" something, whether it's the score, some additional music, a theme or the music of a song, is a "composer", but for DVD Profiler purposes, things are just a little bit different. We distinguish between the composer of the film's actual original score and all others. The person credited with composing the score - easily identified by one of the four credits shown in the rules - gets a "composer" credit. The others don't.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that we're not to use "composer" for this is one of the most clear-cut things in the entire set contribution rules. I'm not talking about the "song writer" aspect of the debate - just the fact that we're not to use "composer". The rules are really very specific in what kind of credits qualify for "composer". Those four very similar on-screen credits that are given in the "credited as" column really don't allow for anything else - I really don't see how this can be interpreted differently. I'm truly baffled by how many people have voted for using "composer", as it's IMHO clearly spelled out that we can't. If even THIS is ignored by so many users, I guess we don't have any rules at all anymore...

Quoting Unicus69:

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Gotta agree with T!M on this one.  The only person who can get a composer credit is the composer of the film's original score.

I agree with this part, however, I do not agree that Theme By should get a Songwriter credit.

The only guidance that we get for Songwriter in the Rules is "Original Songs, written specifically for the film".  There are no rolenames either included or excluded in the table.

So the question is simply, "Is a Theme a Song"?

I'd say sometimes yes and sometimes no.  Since the answer is not cut and dry, I think it's a mistake to use Songwriter for those with words, and nothing for those that are music only.

Why can't we just wait for Ken to add "Theme By" to the credits?

Quoting hal9g:

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So the question is simply, "Is a Theme a Song"?

I'd say sometimes yes and sometimes no.  Since the answer is not cut and dry, I think it's a mistake to use Songwriter for those with words, and nothing for those that are music only.

Why can't we just wait for Ken to add "Theme By" to the credits?

I'm not really in disagreement that we need a "Theme By" credit and have absolutely no problem with leaving the "Theme by" out of the credits.

But just for the sake or argument, the rules say:

Composer:
  Music by
  Music Composed by
  Score by
  Score Composed by

  Used for the composer of the film's Original Score

Since when isn't a Theme (if original to the movie) part of the film's original score? 

Quoting Patsa:

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Quoting EnryWiki:

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Quoting Patsa:

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No composer credit, until we get Themes by. Otherwise we're just adding a lot of useless and confusing information that will be harder to correct than to add once we get the proper credit implemented.

Why would it be harder to correct than not adding anything?

This should be obvious but apparently not. If we follow the rules we know that all composers are really composers and all song writers are really song writers and not something else, like theme writers. If and when a proper theme by credit comes around, this makes it very easy to add them instead of trying to find them in the mess we've created. I don't understand this urgent desire to create a useless database.

If we don't enter anything for a "Theme by" credit, we'll have to check the credits again anyway to enter it in the future (if and when we have a proper "Theme by" role in DVD Profiler), and in the meanwhile the composer of that music (often part of the score, as others noticed) isn't credited at all.

Who wrote the Star Wars Theme Music? Right, the composer John Williams.
Only if it's accompanied by a Singer it's called a (Theme) Song.
In any other case it's called a musical composition made by a composer.
So therefore it can be made by both a Song Writer or a Composer.

IMO theme by = song writer

As I see the rules, the song writer credit is to be used for any piece of credited music and lyrics specifically written for this film except for the score which gets the composer credit. Any music which is not written specifically for this film gets no credit.

Quoting T!M:

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Once again, ALL music is composed. Whether it's a "song", a "theme", a "score"... All music is composed by someone. That doesn't mean they all qualify for a "composer" credit in DVD Profiler, though.

That maybe true, but it also does not mean everybody who has not contributed to the original score, like theme music or additional music writers, need to be called song writers either.

Quoting EnryWiki:

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If we don't enter anything for a "Theme by" credit, we'll have to check the credits again anyway to enter it in the future (if and when we'll have a proper "Theme by" role in DVD Profiler), and in the meanwhile the composer of that music (often part of the score, as others noticed) isn't credited at all.

If we do enter anything for "Theme by" credit, we'll have to check the credits again anyway to enter it in the future (if and when we'll have a proper "Theme by" role in DVD Profiler), and in the meantime the composer of that music (often part of the score, as others noticed) will be incorrectly credited.