In many cases (pun not intended) the front has the same graphics and the back has essentially the same graphics, although the layout may be just slightly different. Images placed slightly different, text flow being slightly different even though the text information is the same.

Identical or not?

Gunnar:

Essentially or virtuallly the same is not the same. Bill Clinton would love you to death. Sometimes the difference can be very subtle but it is a DIFFERENCE.

Skipo

Actually a lot of them, Gunnar. But that does not automatically mean that you cann't get a good scan off of the slip case. Those are actually very few, the TYPE that come to mind weren';t slips, but the old Fox 5-Styar Collection was impossible for me to get a good scan....but we have a user who could. Hs scans of those are some of the few scand in my collection that were NOT done by me. Prismatics are a suicide mission unless you really want a rubber lined cell.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Eagle:

What maty be too reflective for you, can be handled quite well by other users. In reality most reflective covers can be scanned fairly well, there are few exception and with experience you can tell which ones they are...not The Mist.

Skip

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. Not on the fact that some users can get very nice scans of these reflective covers, but on the implication that just because it can be scanned doesn't mean it has to be. You might not have meant/or got by this but based on no vote comments I've seen that is just the impression I get (if i'm incorrect or offended you with this interpretation my apologies, just saying its what i read from the situation)

The thing with covers is they are highly subjective as to whats better. But when someone contributes a front and back scan that replaces front images (not scans, but pre-release images) for both front and back, I consider this to be an improvement, providing of course the scan isn't completely out of whack. To vote no on this type of contribution because its not the reflective slip cover is wrong and just counter productive, imho.

The person took the time to make the scan, maybe they tried to get the reflective slip cover first, maybe they didn't that doesn't matter. If they are providing a nice(r) image (than is currently there) with good colors, why vote no just because its not the slip cover. Their submission does not violate any rules (and puts better data in the database) because the rules allow for the inner cover art. The rule doesn't say anything about only using the keep case art if you can't get a good scan, it says if its reflective and identical, use the keep case.

Further, if front is identical and back isn't (because of the hole for the upc or slight layout variations) why can't you use the keep case front and the slip case back? The backs tend to not have the reflective parts (they are glossy yes, but don't always have reflective parts) so can be more easily scanned then the front.

If someone then goes, "I can get a nice image of the reflective scan" go ahead, but the colors ought to be correct. A recent example is the Highlander The Source. I think the accepted cover scans colors are off because of the reflective slip case. Another contribution, made before that one, had (imo) better colors, it was slightly dirty and maybe a bit dark (but better than the pre-release front images for both front and back), but the blue was blue, not blue/brown that the current image has.

I think the rule needs to be modified to either a) allow for slight variations such as the hole for upc or minor layout changes or b) clear that is has to be 100% identical (which will actually never happen because of issues such glossy, upc holes, etc) or c) allow the inner image to be used whenever the slip case is reflective regardless of it being identical, with the caveat that the slip case overrides the inner artwork providing the slip case is accurate (colors aren't off and things like that).

Or people could just lighten up and accept some of these minor variations and non-slip case scans when the image quality is simply better. I mean those lenticular cases just look bad scanned in when you see two superimposed images.

-Agrare

Actually, if you read the rules, Agrare is correct.  The rules say, "If, however, the Slipcase is reflective, and the inner cover art is identical, use the Keep Case art to scan, as it will give a better quality image."

That rule tells us to use the Keep Case art whenever the Slipcase is reflective.  It says nothing about being able to get a good scan of the reflective cover.

Now, that may have been the intent...and I will admit that that is how I read it...but that is not what the rule actually says. 

Quoting Giga Wizard:

Quote:
The rules say, "If, however, the Slipcase is reflective, and the inner cover art is identical, use the Keep Case art to scan, as it will give a better quality image."
you are forgetting one thing it is marked in red by me. You can only use the inner cover if they are identical!

What exactly does indentical mean? Here is the definition from American Heritage Dictionary:
i·den·ti·cal      (i-den'ti-k?l)
adj. 
1. Being the same: another orator who used the senator's identical words.
2. Exactly equal and alike.
3. Having such a close similarity or resemblance as to be essentially equal or interchangeable.
4. Biology Of or relating to a twin or twins developed from the same fertilized ovum and having the same genetic makeup and closely similar appearance; monozygotic.

So if identical has a definition that states, "Having such a close similarity or resemblance as to be essentially equal or interchangeable." Then that means that the keep case can be submitted over the slip case as long as its close similarity or resemblance. So that means as along as the graphics and text match the keep case, then it could be contributed. Now if the slip case has different graphics or text, then submit that over the keep case image.

Quoting Giga Wizard:

Quote:
yes, this is something different then what Unicus69 is telling, not?
If the slip case is different in graphics or text then the keep case, submit the slip case.

I believe that Unicus is talking about getting the best quality of a scan if the slip cover is reflective vs. using the non-reflective keep case cover. Which is also part of this discussion, because if the keep case matches the reflective slip cover, then use the keep case.

The reason I started this topic, is because people are contributing keep case images that are identical according to the definition and people are voting no, by saying that its a rule violation, since its not a slip cover scan. Also the slip cover tends to have a UPC cut-out and about an extra half inch all around to hold the keep case. Some people are also arguing that that since an image was trimmed to fit on a keep case or has a UPC cut-out that its not the same or identical. I know to me that the UPC cut-out is not all that important to myself, but what is important is that text and graphics are the same.

Quoting 8ballMax:

Quote:
Quoting eagle61397:

Quote:
Some people are also arguing that that since an image was trimmed to fit on a keep case or has a UPC cut-out that its not the same or identical.

That is completely ludicrous . All keep case covers have to be cropped otherwise how on earth are you expected to fit a slip cover over something that's the same size? It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole...ain't gonna work .

Using that logic would completely invalidate the rule because all keep case covers would then not be identical due to cropping .

I completely agree. But here are two votes that show what I'm talking about:
Rear cover slip case has cutout so is not identical to keepcase ....
...Not identical. His head is cut off near the top of back scan, and not so on the Slip Cover's back...