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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting goodguy: Quote: As for partial contributions: Just ask yourself if a contribution improves a profile. This should be pretty easy to decide on a case by case basis. If there is no cast, and someone adds the cast for the first three episodes, but not for the remaining ones, it still is an obvious improvement. Someone else can easily continue to work on that profile, it doesn't have to be done all by one person. This is not just for TV series. This would apply to movies as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,029 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: This is not just for TV series. This would apply to movies as well. Of course. I just used that as an example. The important question remains: Is the contribution an improvement or not. For example, if someone adds only the main stars of a movie to a previously empty cast list, does it improve the profile or not? | | | Matthias |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting eagle61397: Quote: Quoting skipnet50:
Quote: What is needed is a Rules Mod to allow us to reflect the Episodic data accurately relative to shows such as Bewitched, which uses BOTH opening and closing credits, and sometimes the END credits do not match the opening credits because one ot more of the three principals may not be involved in a given episode,
Skip Are you saying we shouldn't credit a cast member, who is credited in the opening credits, but not in the actual episode? Under the current Ruels we should. eagel. But in case with credits designed like Bewitched I believe we should not. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting goodguy: Quote: I think we are dealing with two different issues here.
One is the way Pantheon did the Bewitched contribution, i.e. strictly using a complete list of End Credits covering all actors involved in each episode, and disregarding the generic Opening Credits. The other are partial contributions, for example someone submitting only the cast for a few episodes instead of all of them. Both issues should be discussed separately. I would like to point out that this is the ONLY case like this I have come across. In my experience, the principal cast from the main credits are not repeated in the end credits at all. I think Bewitched was an exception to the rule (although I am sure someone knows differently ) Quote: As for partial contributions: Just ask yourself if a contribution improves a profile. This should be pretty easy to decide on a case by case basis. If there is no cast, and someone adds the cast for the first three episodes, but not for the remaining ones, it still is an obvious improvement. Someone else can easily continue to work on that profile, it doesn't have to be done all by one person. Which is exactly what I have always done. Personally, I always do a 'full audit'; but I feel it's unfair to expect others to do so. While I can see some people are not happy with the ruling I think they just need to remember that ANYTHING that improves the database and reduces work for others is a good thing - and, when it comes down to it, there is nothing to stop those of us that do full audits on a field to continue doing so. This whole thing was really about ensuring that good data gets into the database and is not kept out by misinterpretation of the rules...hence, wanting the rules clarified in writing. |
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Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | I agree there are two separate issues that need to be addressed: 1) are partial contributions WITHIN a field (e.g. the cast list) allowed? 2) what's the definition of "standard credits" - with a view on dealing with situations such as Bewitched, we need to know which rules to apply.
Geri's comment in the other thread only addressed the first question, not the second one. |
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Registered: March 10, 2007 | Posts: 524 |
| Posted: | | | | I have done some research into updating the rules to include a rule that calls out the ability to send in only a partial listing, and I am having trouble seeing where folks are thinking that parital contributions are against the rules. I am interested in the specific wording that is leading people to believe that.
There are definitely two separate issues here, for now I am concerned wtih sorting out only the partial contributions.
-Gerri | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 940 |
| Posted: | | | | From reading in other threads, the words "with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited." seem to be the issue. Some interpret that to mean if you copy exactly the first name in the list and no others, then you have broken the rule. | | | Kevin |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Kevin's right - that's the phrase that's causing the issue. Some people interpret this phrase to mean that if a name is missing, then the names are no longer in "exactly the same order credited" and so against the rules. I would have thought the addition of a sentence like: "Cast and crew lists need not be complete to be submitted." would solve the problem. |
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Registered: March 10, 2007 | Posts: 524 |
| Posted: | | | | Ok, this helps. I wasn't inferring that from the rules at all. Without having the source of the confusion, I couldn't think of what needed to be changed. Now I have more of an idea.
-Gerri | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,692 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote: Ok, this helps. I wasn't inferring that from the rules at all. Without having the source of the confusion, I couldn't think of what needed to be changed. Now I have more of an idea.
-Gerri It helps if you realise that some people would use a missing comma or full stop in the rules as a firm instruction which must be obeyed at all costs.. | | | Paul |
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Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,807 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: [...] Quote: I would have thought the addition of a sentence like: "Cast and crew lists need not be complete to be submitted." would solve the problem. But the same applies to any other field, not just Cast and Crew. Perhaps a more general statement would be useful, like: "Contributed fields need not be complete to be submitted." | | | -- Enry |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 168 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote: Quoting northbloke: [...]
Quote: I would have thought the addition of a sentence like: "Cast and crew lists need not be complete to be submitted." would solve the problem.
But the same applies to any other field, not just Cast and Crew. Perhaps a more general statement would be useful, like: "Contributed fields need not be complete to be submitted." Careful here....as you are suggesting wording it, I could just see someone down the line interpreting that so literally that you they could concievable enter just the first few words from, say the overview, and contribute THAT. (You KNOW it'll happen ) |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote: Quoting northbloke: [...]
Quote: I would have thought the addition of a sentence like: "Cast and crew lists need not be complete to be submitted." would solve the problem.
But the same applies to any other field, not just Cast and Crew. Perhaps a more general statement would be useful, like: "Contributed fields need not be complete to be submitted." I think we are opening a huge can of worms here but, if this is what the majority wants, so be it. Edit: I see Mike is on the same page I am. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 1,777 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MtnMike: Quote:
Careful here....as you are suggesting wording it, I could just see someone down the line interpreting that so literally that you they could concievable enter just the first few words from, say the overview, and contribute THAT. (You KNOW it'll happen ) What'll be even dumber is watching a few folks patiently explain how we all must vote for it because it follows the rules! |
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Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,715 |
| Posted: | | | | I think the rules should not be changed only for incomplete cast and crew lists, but there should be a complete section about incomplete contributions.
At least this should cover: - ability of leaving complete fields blank - ability of using short lists for cast and crew (as listed in opening credits or on the DVD cover) - abitlity of listing technical features (Audio, Subtitles, Features, ...) from the DVD cover instead of the disk - incremental episode listings of cast and crew - missing child profiles for box sets AND - documentation of left content: If the contributor knows that (s)he contributes an incomplete profile, (s)he should prepare a list of open working areas (for others as well as for himself)...
Just my two cents...
AA | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote: I think the rules should not be changed only for incomplete cast and crew lists, but there should be a complete section about incomplete contributions.
At least this should cover: - ability of leaving complete fields blank We have this now - you just don't tick the box next to the section you don't want to contribute. Quote: - ability of using short lists for cast and crew (as listed in opening credits or on the DVD cover) Agree with first part of this but not the second. I still think that whatever data is added MUST come from the disc/credits and NOT the box. Quote: - abitlity of listing technical features (Audio, Subtitles, Features, ...) from the DVD cover instead of the disk see above Quote: - incremental episode listings of cast and crew Can't see a problem with this Quote: - missing child profiles for box sets or this. Quote: AND - documentation of left content: If the contributor knows that (s)he contributes an incomplete profile, (s)he should prepare a list of open working areas (for others as well as for himself).. While I feel this is a good idea I would say that may users would view this as a waste of time; better spent completing more of the profile. @Unicus I don't see why any worms need to be opened regarding this as long as the wording in the rules is clear. I vote now based on the simple rules: 'Does what this person is contributing improve the current profile? Does it add missing information? Does it meet the contribution rules requirements?' and, if the answer to these is yes then I vote YES. |
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