Quoting Pantheon:

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I contributed the cast as I felt they should be (from the END credits). The cast were complete from those end credits; and obviously taken from the DVD and no other source.

However, they were voted down because, according to some, I had missed Agnes Moorehead from some of the episodes.
While I disagreed with the 'NO' voters interpretation of the rules I withdrew the contributions.

Upon further reflection, and a re-read of the rules, I decided that my contribution was correct and re-submitted them.

The same 3 people have voted NO, stating "some cast missing" (or words to that effect).

So, my question is this:

If what I DID submit is correct and taken from the actual credits; and could also be considered a partial contribution of the cast.....then surely voting NO is a violation of the rules; because there is nothing in the rules that states I have to add all the cast.

I realise that I am potentially splitting hairs here, but...I am trying to get valid and correct information into the database - which other members can use as a baseline to add to.
I realise that some people have already posed the question "why don't you just add Agnes Moorehead yourself" and the answer is....IT IS WRONG to do so in my opinion and the rules don't support it.

The rules do support it "If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.". 

From your own words "I contributed the cast as I felt they should be (from the END credits)." Basically you ignored the beginning credits since you didn't want to add Agnes Moorehead to every episode listing.

I would say until there is a rule change that allows us to ommit credited cast that actually don't appear in a TV episode or movie, we should be following the rules as written for the online DB.

Quoting hal9g:

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If the field in question (cast, Overview, etc) is not 100% correct per the Rules, then a "no" vote is fully justified, although I can understand why some people would do partial contributions to the crew section.

Does that mean that you would vote no on partial cast but not partial crew?

In my opinion, as long as a contribution corrects something in the profile, it's worth a yes vote as long as it doesn't break something else

The crew is broken up by sections; Direction, Writing, Production, Cinematography, Film Editing, Music, Sound, Art.  As long as a contributor contributes to a particular section of the crew, I don't see an issue with that.

Quoting Tracer:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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ONLY if you consider the credits for Bewitched to NOT be Standard....and, it is here, that I will disagree with others.
Because the end credits are COMPLETE for each episode - listing each actor with their role as they appeared - then it is from the end credits that the information should be taken.

If Elizabeth Montgomery and Dick York had NOT been in the end credits (as happens with later seasons) I would have taken the names from the opening credits as per the rule you quote. But, when they are repeated it is an indication that the END credits are STANDARD credits and should be used.

Besides, you missed the point - the data I DID contribute was correct...no misspellings, made-up entries, unverified BYs or Credited As entries....in effect, completely correct and should not get a NO for being INCORRECT.

Was Agnes Moorehead credited in any of the opening credits but, not the end credits?  If so then it then this rule should apply "If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.".

So if an a group of actors are listed in the opening credits Elizabeth Montgomery, Dick York, and Agnes Moorehead.  And Elizabeth Montgomery and Dick York are credited in the end credits but, not Agnes Moorehead you don't want to add her to the profile even if she did appear in the episode soley because she wasn't credited in the end credits?

but as in the thread dedicated to this issue, you are missing the fact that that part of the rule is part of the rule that states "If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules:" and then your quoted rule is listed as one of the following rules.

so then it comes up to what are standard credits.
"For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film. The credits may be listed "in order of appearance", "alphabetical order" or in an order of importance decided by the filmmakers. Some actors may be credited a second time in either credits at either the opening or close of the film."

ok, so Agnes Moorehead wasn't in the episode. So one could say she wasn't involved in that episode and there for these are still standard credits. The rule you quoted then doesn't apply at all. Also, the issues of re-use of opening credits in TV shows is also a factor.

Lets please not rehash the Bewitched Cast thread exactly. If you are going to comment on that, do it there, read the thread first though as there really isn't anything more to say. It comes down to interpretation of the rule.

If there is no cast (don't know if thats the case here), and all cast from the end credits is entered but nothing from the opening credits. how is that any different than entering all crew from just the end credits or vice versa. Or entering just the direction crew but no sound crew. The info is still correct, its still better than it was. 99% of the work was done, if it bothers you so much, after the update is released add the 1 missing actor yourself and contribute it.

This whole idea that we don't accept data that betters the database but isn't 100% accurate is ridiculous. If what is there is accurate and doesn't remove other accurate data then it should be accepted. Otherwise every first contribution for any given section should be 100% accurate and never have to be changed again (unless a rule change makes it incorrect) The fact that its a user created database lends itself that data is going to get entered\corrected in chunks.

-Agrare

Quoting Tracer:

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I'm not trying to rehash Bewitched, another member brought it up so I used it as an example.  So I'll ask my questions again with out this particular cast.

Was the actor in question for example "Jane Doe" credited in any of the opening credits but, not the end credits?  If so then it then this rule should apply "If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.".

So if an a group of actors are listed in the opening credits John Smith, John Doe, and Jane Doe.  And John Smith and John Doe are credited in the end credits but, not Jane Doe you don't want to add Jane Doe to the profile even if Jane Doe did appear in a movie or TV episode soley because Jane Doe wasn't credited in the end credits?

The quote you use only comes into effect if the credits are NOT considered standard. That is not the case here. The end credits are standard - they list the actors involved with the roles they played.

Standard credits=taken from end credits.

Quoting Tracer:

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So your saying Jane Doe wasn't involved becuase that actor was not listed in the end credits or becuase that actor did not appear in the TV episode or Movie?

This isn't the first time we have run into this, where a movie will list some actors at the begining of the movie and repeat the cast again in the end credits.  But, one or two of the actors listed in the beginning are not listed in what you would call "Standard End Credits".

I've never come across this before in anything other than TV shows...and will always list the opening credit cast if they are not listed/repeated in the end credits.

I find it amazing that people vote no to contribution that improves the profile because they insist that an actor be listed to wasn't even in the profile.

More importantly I find it amazing that people are voting no to what could be considered a partial contribution.

Good suggestions all, Tracer....and all tried.

I have decided that I'm fighting a losing cause....and, when it comes down to it; who am I to insist that people accept good data? 

So, here's what I've decided...
I will let the current contribution run its course and see what the screeners decide. If they decline then I will leave it at that and let someone else do the cast on this title (not that I can see anyone getting off their lazy behinds to do it!).

I have the information locally and will upload it to my online db which will ensure I have access if needed.

Everyone else be damned, quite frankly.

Quoting kdh1949:

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In any event, I share your puzzlement why people are so concerned about including an actor who doesn't appear in an particular episode.  I thought one of the main reasons for profiling episode data was to be able to find the program/film that an actor actually appeared in -- not just one he happened to be credited in.

I agree - I want to look at the credits to see who was in a film or episode. If we are going to now include people who never appeared in the episode then we need to have some way of differentiating them - so we can totally ignore them in searches etc.