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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Tool to extract headshots from actors-db OR headshots in filesystem |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler. How can it then be illigal under Dutch law (or any other law for that matter, but this does not matter for me) to create a tool that allows me to make this very same headshot available though for example a Media Center interface and display it on the very same TV the DVD Profiler program is displaying it?
If we can't develop or use tools that can potentially be misused, then I guess we have seen the last posts from everyone here as this pretty much rules out any development and use of internet browsers. | | | Regards
Lars |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I am just trying to figure it out. Well, that is fine, of course. I was just wondering, as the first post actually had all the information in it... - user wants only his headshots from DVD Profiler, not a collection - example of use: phpDVDProfiler | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lmoelleb: Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler. And just who said that what you are doing is entirely legal? Some here want to export these headshots so that they can be used on there own phpDVDProfiler web sites. That is not fair use. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
You're asking Ken to incorporate a function into the program that will facilitate the importing and exporting of possible copyrighted material? I don't think it'll happen. no, he's asking Ken to facilitate the importing/exporting of headshots which Ken has decided can be stored now within the database. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler.
And just who said that what you are doing is entirely legal?
Luckily this is not how it works. You have to be specifically told (by the law, not by the copyright holder) if it is not legal. As this has not happened, I am obviously not doing anything illigal. Quote:
Some here want to export these headshots so that they can be used on there own phpDVDProfiler web sites. That is not fair use. 1) Fair use with regards to copyright is an American concept. Other jurisdictions provides different rights and obligations. So just because people want to do things that are illigal in the US does not mean they are doing anything morally wrong. 2) What has "some" wanting to do something that might be illigal to do with me legally displaying the headshots on my Media Center PC? "Some" might also want to distribute copyrighted movies using an FTP server - that does not make my FTP server used to distribute my own stuff illigal. | | | Regards
Lars | | | | Last edited: by lmoelleb |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Lars: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. But I also know that there is INTERNATIONAL Copyright law, and there are treaties among countries dealing with Copyrights, so don't be TOO quick to presume that what you are doing is perfectly legal. It may well be, but it also may not be. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lmoelleb: Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler. How can it then be illigal under Dutch law (or any other law for that matter, but this does not matter for me) to create a tool that allows me to make this very same headshot available though for example a Media Center interface and display it on the very same TV the DVD Profiler program is displaying it?
If we can't develop or use tools that can potentially be misused, then I guess we have seen the last posts from everyone here as this pretty much rules out any development and use of internet browsers. It's legal for you because you're a private user. Once you start sharing them, you cross over the line and become a provider, even if it isn't for profit. Also, Invelos or your browser maker license you to use that product for personal use. If you cross over into commercial use, then that voids your end user agreement and you are in violation. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lmoelleb: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler.
And just who said that what you are doing is entirely legal?
Luckily this is not how it works. You have to be specifically told (by the law, not by the copyright holder) if it is not legal. As this has not happened, I am obviously not doing anything illigal.
Quote:
Some here want to export these headshots so that they can be used on there own phpDVDProfiler web sites. That is not fair use.
1) Fair use with regards to copyright is an American concept. Other jurisdictions provides different rights and obligations. So just because people want to do things that are illigal in the US does not mean they are doing anything morally wrong.
2) What has "some" wanting to do something that might be illigal to do with me legally displaying the headshots on my Media Center PC? "Some" might also want to distribute copyrighted movies using an FTP server - that does not make my FTP server used to distribute my own stuff illigal. So, basically, you are in support of piracy of DVDs, correct? And yes, it IS morally wrong to deprive the owner of the copyright of the lawful profits that attach to it. Regarding your FTP server, that may or may not be illegal. Depends on how you set it up. If you require passwords and such to gain access then you most likely are liable for the content that ends up on it. If you maintain an open-to-the public setup then anybody can upload anything and you have no control over it, so you wouldn't be liable. And, in certain countries, the mere possession of certain things on your computer is illegal, regardless of how it got there. So, I would not make blanket statements like you did about what is or isn't legal because you might find out the hard way what isn't. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler.
And just who said that what you are doing is entirely legal?
Luckily this is not how it works. You have to be specifically told (by the law, not by the copyright holder) if it is not legal. As this has not happened, I am obviously not doing anything illigal.
Quote:
Some here want to export these headshots so that they can be used on there own phpDVDProfiler web sites. That is not fair use.
1) Fair use with regards to copyright is an American concept. Other jurisdictions provides different rights and obligations. So just because people want to do things that are illigal in the US does not mean they are doing anything morally wrong.
2) What has "some" wanting to do something that might be illigal to do with me legally displaying the headshots on my Media Center PC? "Some" might also want to distribute copyrighted movies using an FTP server - that does not make my FTP server used to distribute my own stuff illigal.
So, basically, you are in support of piracy of DVDs, correct? And yes, it IS morally wrong to deprive the owner of the copyright of the lawful profits that attach to it.
Regarding your FTP server, that may or may not be illegal. Depends on how you set it up. If you require passwords and such to gain access then you most likely are liable for the content that ends up on it. If you maintain an open-to-the public setup then anybody can upload anything and you have no control over it, so you wouldn't be liable. And, in certain countries, the mere possession of certain things on your computer is illegal, regardless of how it got there. So, I would not make blanket statements like you did about what is or isn't legal because you might find out the hard way what isn't. All very correct, John and which is why I prefer to err on the side of caution and prudence.  But I will be careful, I don't want to derail this into a discussion of morality and what constitutes theft. I know for certain that what I do in any given is fully legal and places me in no personal jeopardy, legally speaking...better safe than sorry. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:
Quote:
So it is legal for me to build a private headshot database in DVD Profiler.
And just who said that what you are doing is entirely legal?
Luckily this is not how it works. You have to be specifically told (by the law, not by the copyright holder) if it is not legal. As this has not happened, I am obviously not doing anything illigal.
Quote:
Some here want to export these headshots so that they can be used on there own phpDVDProfiler web sites. That is not fair use.
1) Fair use with regards to copyright is an American concept. Other jurisdictions provides different rights and obligations. So just because people want to do things that are illigal in the US does not mean they are doing anything morally wrong.
2) What has "some" wanting to do something that might be illigal to do with me legally displaying the headshots on my Media Center PC? "Some" might also want to distribute copyrighted movies using an FTP server - that does not make my FTP server used to distribute my own stuff illigal.
So, basically, you are in support of piracy of DVDs, correct?
Incorrect (and where did you get THAT stupid idea from????). I have an image in DVD Profiler. I have optained the image legally according to Dutch copyright law. I want to see it though my Media Center interface. This does not imply I want to copy DVD's, and frankly I am NOT happy you make completely redicilous statements like this without ANY indication they are right. I do expect an apology. Quote:
And yes, it IS morally wrong to deprive the owner of the copyright of the lawful profits that attach to it.
You are completely correct, and I have not said anything to the contrary. What I am saying is that "lawful" obviously differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. And as "Fair Use" is an American concept, you can't use it to determine what is morally right and wrong to do in other countries. It would obviously not be morally correct of me to break Dutch law, even if my actions would be legal in the US. Similar, it can't be morally wrong you do something allowed under Fair Use, simply because your actions would be illigal in the Netherlands. Hence my statement that you can't judge if it is morally correct based on the Fair Use criteria alone - you have to take the jurisdiction into consideration, and allow for some people being morally allowed to do things you can't do - then you can enjoy it when it is the other way around. Quote:
Regarding your FTP server, that may or may not be illegal. Depends on how you set it up. If you require passwords and such to gain access then you most likely are liable for the content that ends up on it. If you maintain an open-to-the public setup then anybody can upload anything and you have no control over it, so you wouldn't be liable. And, in certain countries, the mere possession of certain things on your computer is illegal, regardless of how it got there. So, I would not make blanket statements like you did about what is or isn't legal because you might find out the hard way what isn't. Again, you simply do not understand anything I am trying to say. I am actually making the point that some FTP servers are running illigal, but that is because illigal actions are performed on them, and it does not make FTP servers as such illigal. Basically I was simply asking you what on Earth someone elses potential misuse had to do with my legal use of a feature - and then I gave an FTP server as an example of a situation where it is how the server is uses that determines if it is legal or not. Why do you then go on ranting about the exact same thing as if I didn't know it? Read what I write, instead of what you assume I write. And with regards to my FTP server it is open to the public to read the content, it is password protected for upload. The content being distributed is content to which I own the copyright (yes I am relying on copyright laws to protect my rights, which makes your statements even more redicilous). Again, I do expect an apology for your unwarrented statement that I might run an illigal FTP server. | | | Regards
Lars |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | To try and get this thread back in line:
I would also like to see a tool like this, though I would like to see an import option in it too, as well as export.
I could see it being very handy, as you could collect a group of new headshots together before adding them, rather than having to do them one at a time.
(And I know there's that nifty little utility already available, but you have to admit it's very slow, and as far as I can tell there's no way of telling it to only import certain headshots - it has to do the whole list every time). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | North:
Put simply there is too much legal risk to Invelos, to sanction this, which includes allowing someone to create a Plug-In which would the be available via Download through the site; regardless of what I might think of the concept itself. So don't hold your breath, amigo.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Except that writers of software that has a legitimate use cannot be held responsible if others use their software to break the law.
Otherwise you wouldn't see so many software sites allowing the download of DVD copying software, because of the risk of it being used to copy commercial discs.
And as far as I can tell, most people want this feature to be able to add the headshots to their own websites. Once they have hosted the images on their own web server, copyright responsibility becomes theirs, not the person who wrote the software that allowed them to collect the images. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Except that writers of software that has a legitimate use cannot be held responsible if others use their software to break the law.
Otherwise you wouldn't see so many software sites allowing the download of DVD copying software, because of the risk of it being used to copy commercial discs.
And as far as I can tell, most people want this feature to be able to add the headshots to their own websites. Once they have hosted the images on their own web server, copyright responsibility becomes theirs, not the person who wrote the software that allowed them to collect the images. Oh, that is not true, at all, north. We have already had numerous such test cases here in the States with people attempting to hide behind that and the courts have not ruled in their favor, nor should they. Numerous pieces of software have died in this attempt. I am afraid you will have to live with something nor directly attached to Invelos, were I the developer there is no way I would be involved in sanctioning this in any way, it would make no difference how many users wanted it. I have an asset to protect, and i would not be willing to endanger that asset because users want me to. I am not saying it's bad idea, I am saying that it is an ide a of questionable legality and will therefore probably have to live outside of the program. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 85 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Put simply there is too much legal risk to Invelos[...]
Skip I don't see the point: All headshots are only stored locally - Today I can also add copyrighted material by cut&paste - only one by one - but regarding copyright violations there's no difference... And what's about the 'headshot master database' ?! legal?! How do I use the images? I have a small perl-script to generate a website I can put on my Palm Tungsten (no mobile support for Palm from Ken  ) - I use headshots in this programm too ... with an import/export tool or storing in filesystem updates would be much easier. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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