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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lopek: Quote:
Agreed. LoTR are definately New Zealand imo. New Line owns the movie rights to the LoTR trilogy and The Hobbit. The fact that they hired Peter Jackson's production company to make the film doesn't change that fact. Basically New Line, a US company, hired WingNut, a New Zealand company to make the film. This is really starting to border on the absurd.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Lopek:
Quote:
Agreed. LoTR are definately New Zealand imo.
New Line owns the movie rights to the LoTR trilogy and The Hobbit. The fact that they hired Peter Jackson's production company to make the film doesn't change that fact. Basically New Line, a US company, hired WingNut, a New Zealand company to make the film.
This is really starting to border on the absurd. Another famous example is A Very Long Engagement which was denied public funding from France when it was determined that too much of the other production money for the film was coming from an American source -- Warner. LinkTo me, the important information to track is the country where the actual people that made the film are based. For LotR, that's New Zealand. For A Very Long Engagement, that's France. Since you think that's absurd, I guess I'll lock these down until the dust settles.  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
To me, the important information to track is the country where the actual people that made the film are based. For LotR, that's New Zealand. For A Very Long Engagement, that's France.
Since you think that's absurd, I guess I'll lock these down until the dust settles. I might agree with you had WingNut gone to New Line and said, "Hey, we have this movie we are making. Can you help us finance it and distribute it for us?" But they didn't. New Line hired Peter Jackson to direct the film and hired his production company to do the work. New Line owns the movie rights for the books. They could have made these films without WingNut...think The Hobbit...WingNut could not have made the films without New Line. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I might agree with you had WingNut gone to New Line and said, "Hey, we have this movie we are making. Can you help us finance it and distribute it for us?" But they didn't. New Line hired Peter Jackson to direct the film and hired his production company to do the work.
New Line owns the movie rights for the books. They could have made these films without WingNut...think The Hobbit...WingNut could not have made the films without New Line. Nor could New Line have made the film without a group like WingNut. The company they chose affected the flavor of the product, in my opinion, more than the flavor of the money that paid for the show. But I do understand your point that the group that controls the story should be the one we use to determine COO. Danjac and United Artists own the James Bond franchise. Both of those companies are Delaware corporations. Link So the money is largely US provided and the story is US-owned, but surely we're not going to go with US for James Bond? EON Productions, a subsidiary of US-based Danjac, is based in London and they produce the films. So US money and US-owned story flow to a US-owned UK-based subsidiary, mixes with some other UK funds probably, and out comes a production we call UK. But US money and US-owned story flows to an independent New Zealand company and we call it US? Regardless, this is a troublesome field. It really needs to be a checkbox like we have for subtitles where we select all of the companies that had a hand or a monetary unit in making the film. But that may not be feasible. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
|  | johnd | | Evening, poetry lovers. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 298 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
New Line hired Peter Jackson to direct the film and hired his production company to do the work.
New Line owns the movie rights for the books. They could have made these films without WingNut...think The Hobbit...WingNut could not have made the films without New Line. Exactly. New Line could not have made the film themselves. They are a film finance company, not an artistic production company. As I mentioned before, LotR would have looked the same if WingNut had made it with money from someone else, but would not have looked the same if New Line had financed someone else to make it. What is on the screen matters, not where the money came from. Artistic integrity vs. money grubbing bastards. Which side do you come down on? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
LoTR was filmed in New Zealand, that does not mean it was produced by New Zealand.
WingNut would never have been involved in making this film if it weren't for the fact that New Line decided to produce (and finance) it. That means they (New Line ) were responsible for the film ever happening to begin with.
COO = U.S.A. LoTR was financed from the USA, that does not mean it was produced by the USA. New Line would never have been involved in financing this film if it weren't for the fact that WingNut decided to produce (and film) it. That means they (WingNut ) were responsible for the film ever happening to begin with. COO = New Zealand |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting johnd: Quote:
Exactly. New Line could not have made the film themselves. They are a film finance company, not an artistic production company. As I mentioned before, LotR would have looked the same if WingNut had made it with money from someone else, but would not have looked the same if New Line had financed someone else to make it. Actually, New Line is the only one who could have made the film themselves...they own the rights. WingNut needed New Line, New Line didn't need WingNut. Would it have been a different film? Yes, but that isn't the point. Quote:
What is on the screen matters, not where the money came from. Artistic integrity vs. money grubbing bastards. Which side do you come down on? There wouldn't have been anything on screen if it wasn't for the 'money grubbing bastards' that put up the money to make the movies. As an aside, I thing that was an amusing comment considering Peter Jackson and WingNut Films won't be making The Hobbit because he/they are acting like money grubbing bastards.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
New Line would never have been involved in financing this film if it weren't for the fact that WingNut decided to produce (and film) it. That means they (WingNut ) were responsible for the film ever happening to begin with. What are you talking about? New Line owns the movie rights...just like they do for The Hobbit. Nobody but New Line could have made the films...just as nobody but New Line can make The Hobbit. That means they are responsible for the film ever happening to begin with...while I like Jackson and WingNut, they were nothing more than sub-contractors. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Regardless, this is a troublesome field. It really needs to be a checkbox like we have for subtitles where we select all of the companies that had a hand or a monetary unit in making the film. But that may not be feasible. That is certainly a solution I would support! Or remove the newly introduced can of worms completely of course.  <cough>New Zealand</cough> | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database |
|  | JonM | | Registered 28 Dec 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 343 |
| | Posted: | | | | So New Line own the rights to the LoTR story (a British story, but don't go there! ) and instigate the process to make the film. In that case, Aardman could have got it and made it in plasticine. I say it's New Zealand origin. They could have got it made elsewhere, but arguably not as well or successful, and in the end, the flavour was definately Kiwi. And did New Line even care if it got made? Just how many ideas do producers have that never happen because the money isn't right? Look how quick they've been to dump Jackson over money. They don't care about artistic integrity. I do and that is what influences how I use CoO, because it's that angle I want to track. | | | Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
 | | | | Last edited: by JonM |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
New Line would never have been involved in financing this film if it weren't for the fact that WingNut decided to produce (and film) it. That means they (WingNut ) were responsible for the film ever happening to begin with.
What are you talking about? New Line owns the movie rights...just like they do for The Hobbit. Nobody but New Line could have made the films...just as nobody but New Line can make The Hobbit. That means they are responsible for the film ever happening to begin with...while I like Jackson and WingNut, they were nothing more than sub-contractors. As history has proven they have needed WingNut. WingNut could have bought the rights from New Line and make the film by themselves, at least theoretically. For a movie to be created it needs both, financing and filming. But I would say filming is closer to production than financing. |
| | johnd | | Evening, poetry lovers. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 298 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Actually, New Line is the only one who could have made the film themselves...they own the rights. WingNut needed New Line, New Line didn't need WingNut. Would it have been a different film? Yes, but that isn't the point. How terribly capitalist of you: Reduction of art to an exchange of money. Try to understand before one of us dies: Having money is not a talent. Having money does not create an artistic vision. Having money to buy the rights does not give you artistic integrity. By your estimate, Michael Jackson buying the Beatles catalogue suddenly gave him artistic integrity. What a strange view of the world you have. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Lopek:
Quote:
Agreed. LoTR are definately New Zealand imo.
New Line owns the movie rights to the LoTR trilogy and The Hobbit. The fact that they hired Peter Jackson's production company to make the film doesn't change that fact. Basically New Line, a US company, hired WingNut, a New Zealand company to make the film.
This is really starting to border on the absurd.
Another famous example is A Very Long Engagement which was denied public funding from France when it was determined that too much of the other production money for the film was coming from an American source -- Warner. Link
To me, the important information to track is the country where the actual people that made the film are based. For LotR, that's New Zealand. For A Very Long Engagement, that's France.
Since you think that's absurd, I guess I'll lock these down until the dust settles. By that logic, 'King Solomon's Mines' with Stewart Granger belongs to South Africa because that's where it was filmed. Or 'An American in Paris' becomes French because it was filmed in Paris. Or Clark Gable in 'Soldier of Fortune' belongs to Hong Kong, etc. This is absurd, because Gerri already said that whoever owns the film at the time it was made is the country of origin. In other words, the company that caused it to be made, regardless of where it was filmed or the nationality of the cast and crew. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting johnd: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
New Line hired Peter Jackson to direct the film and hired his production company to do the work.
New Line owns the movie rights for the books. They could have made these films without WingNut...think The Hobbit...WingNut could not have made the films without New Line.
Exactly. New Line could not have made the film themselves. They are a film finance company, not an artistic production company. As I mentioned before, LotR would have looked the same if WingNut had made it with money from someone else, but would not have looked the same if New Line had financed someone else to make it.
What is on the screen matters, not where the money came from. Artistic integrity vs. money grubbing bastards. Which side do you come down on? The side of whoever owns the bloody movie. New Line owns the rights, period. They could've hired anybody to make the movies. Yeah, it would be a different movie if somebody else made it, but so what? That has nothing to do with anything except your personal preference. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting johnd: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Actually, New Line is the only one who could have made the film themselves...they own the rights. WingNut needed New Line, New Line didn't need WingNut. Would it have been a different film? Yes, but that isn't the point.
How terribly capitalist of you: Reduction of art to an exchange of money.
Try to understand before one of us dies: Having money is not a talent. Having money does not create an artistic vision. Having money to buy the rights does not give you artistic integrity. By your estimate, Michael Jackson buying the Beatles catalogue suddenly gave him artistic integrity.
What a strange view of the world you have. What are you, a bloody socialist? Money is grease that lets the gears of the world continue to grind. When are people going to realize that? | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Here is what Gerri said in another thread about the CoO...
Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
Yes, that is the intention, Lord of the Rings would be US. It is where the production companies are based.
Elwood Blues is right.
-Gerri
So the intent of the field is where the Production Company is based. So basically... unless they decide to change it... where the original idea comes from don't matter. what matters is the company that produces the film.
EDIT:
HERE is a Link to that Thread This is confusing the hell out of me; Gerri is saying that the CoO field is to record the production company? I'm ok with that, but the production company for LoTR is based in NZ, NOT the US! So is Gerri wrong? |
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