Quoting Squirrel.God:

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Quoting northbloke:

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Can we interest the US in "Up the Chastity Belt" as an exchange?

Quoting northbloke:

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Just noticed: someone is contributing the US disc with a CoO of US. Dare I vote no? 

It's that contribution which prompted me to start this thread to get some discussion and opinions flowing. There are zero contribution notes other than stating that the COO has been added. Yet it's not clear what the COO is and certainly not clear that it's United States.

This whole issue is getting completely insane.  I couldn't care less what anybody FEELS the CoO should be.  The fact that Wingnut made LOTR in New Zealand, or Lycanthrope made AWIL in England is immaterial.  Ownership is the key, and always has been.

Here's one that oughta drive you touchy-feely types up a wall:  "Children of Men" has just been released Tuesday.  It was very obviously made in England, and I'm sure some of you will try to say the CoO should be England.  Guess what?  Here's what it says at the end of the credits from that movie:

"Copyright 2006 Universal Studios. All Rights Reserved.

Country of first publication: United States of America.

Universal Studios is the author for purposes of the Berne Convention and all national laws giving effect thereto.

This motion picture is protected under the laws of United States and other countries..."

Anybody want to try to tell me that the US isn't the CoO?

Quoting Lopek:

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Quoting Rifter:

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This whole issue is getting completely insane.  I couldn't care less what anybody FEELS the CoO should be.  The fact that Wingnut made LOTR in New Zealand, or Lycanthrope made AWIL in England is immaterial.  Ownership is the key, and always has been.

Always has been? The field has only been there for 3 weeks and Invelos have not given a clear indication of it's usage in the rules?? 
The only statement was contradictory - use the country of the production company, but then gave an incorrect country for the film in question. 

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Here's one that oughta drive you touchy-feely types up a wall:  "Children of Men" has just been released Tuesday.  It was very obviously made in England, and I'm sure some of you will try to say the CoO should be England.  Guess what?  Here's what it says at the end of the credits from that movie:

"Copyright 2006 Universal Studios. All Rights Reserved.

Country of first publication: United States of America.

Universal Studios is the author for purposes of the Berne Convention and all national laws giving effect thereto.

This motion picture is protected under the laws of United States and other countries..."

Anybody want to try to tell me that the US isn't the CoO?

You really need to read the thread properly Rifter, with maybe one exception, noone has been saying that the CoO should reflect where a film was made, but the nationality of he production company.

Nowhere has Invelos given any indication that Copyright holder is the deciding factor for CoO, despite all your repeated protestations that that is the only possible factor. 

As for Children of Men, you have not provided the relevant info to decide it as we would need the production company name and nationality - and I don't have time to look it up right now.

Doesn't matter if you have time or not.  Won't change a thing.  It isn't 'just' the copyright either.  It's the whole thing.

From the Wisconsin Statutes (since I'm a lawyer in Wisconsin):

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180.0401(1)(a) The corporate name of a corporation:
 
1. Shall contain the word "corporation", "incorporated", "company" or "limited" or the abbreviation "corp.", "inc.", "co." or "ltd." or words or abbreviations of like import in another language, except as provided in par. (b) or s. 180.1907.

So limited is perfectly acceptable in US corporations.

remove the field CoO: problem solved

Quoting Giga Wizard:

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remove the field CoO: problem solved

That works for me.  After all, I don't give a rodent's rump what the country of origin is as long as it has an R1 region code.  If somebody wants to think a particular movie is British (or whatever) and its really a US movie, who cares?

Quoting Rifter:

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Right.  And exactly HOW do you determine what a production company is, and which one really did it, when you've got sixteen different definitions floating around?  Hmmm.

This whole thing is ludicrous.

So ludicrous that we've reached the point of having to use crap analogies that try to over-simplify things. I apologise in advance. 

Let's say that I, British citizen, wish to write a book (I'm not telling you what that book is about for the purposes of this argument; it could be thriller, sci-fi, biography, whatever, set in any country or even language). But I can't afford paper or a printer, nor do I know any publishers. You, an American do have these things and pay for them. You also negotiate deals for printing and selling. It'll probably get sold in America first. It may even be about America. We both get stinking rich, but my British name is on the cover.

You "own" the book, the rights, whatever, while I wrote the thing so it's my story and idea. In Book Profiler (which Ken is going to release on Monday  ), what country goes in CoO? IMO, it should be UK.

I know this is a rubbish example which will get torn wide open, and I'm not bothered if you agree with my opinion, I'm just trying to demonstrate that it is easy to ascertain who the artistic production company is. As easy as reasing an authors name and the blurb inside the cover. With the fishy and wolfy examples that have been argued about so far, it is obvious.

Quoting JonM:

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Quoting Rifter:

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Right.  And exactly HOW do you determine what a production company is, and which one really did it, when you've got sixteen different definitions floating around?  Hmmm.

This whole thing is ludicrous.

So ludicrous that we've reached the point of having to use crap analogies that try to over-simplify things. I apologise in advance. 

Let's say that I, British citizen, wish to write a book (I'm not telling you what that book is about for the purposes of this argument; it could be thriller, sci-fi, biography, whatever, set in any country or even language). But I can't afford paper or a printer, nor do I know any publishers. You, an American do have these things and pay for them. You also negotiate deals for printing and selling. It'll probably get sold in America first. It may even be about America. We both get stinking rich, but my British name is on the cover.

You "own" the book, the rights, whatever, while I wrote the thing so it's my story and idea. In Book Profiler (which Ken is going to release on Monday  ), what country goes in CoO? IMO, it should be UK.

I know this is a rubbish example which will get torn wide open, and I'm not bothered if you agree with my opinion, I'm just trying to demonstrate that it is easy to ascertain who the artistic production company is. As easy as reasing an authors name and the blurb inside the cover. With the fishy and wolfy examples that have been argued about so far, it is obvious.

But this discussion has never been about artistic production, nor did the comment from Gerri address that.  It is about the 'production company of record.'  Take LOTR, for example.  I greatly admire Peter Jackson's talent and artistic sense - LOTR and Kong are two of my favorites.  But without New Line, his artistic talent would be worth didly, and those movies would never have been made.  New Line "produced"  Lord of the Rings by 'producing' the money that enabled Peter Jackson and Wingnut to do the work.

Quoting Rifter:

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But without New Line, his artistic talent would be worth didly, and those movies would never have been made.  New Line "produced"  Lord of the Rings by 'producing' the money that enabled Peter Jackson and Wingnut to do the work.

That's not strictly true. It's already been stated that Peter Jackson took LoTR to New Line, not the other way round. So it's safe to assume if New Line hadn't paid for it, someone else could have.
And a film producer doesn't produce the money, they manage it.

I've just realised - how have we ended up discussing LoTR in an American Werewolf thread?