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    Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion Page: 1... 17 18 19 20 21 ...168  Previous   Next
HD DVD and Blu-ray
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
A_S, how can you seriously blame MS for this format war???  This battle is the continuation of the money grubbing feud between SONY and TOSHIBA that started back during the pre-DVD days...

Read this article

Granted this is an older article about the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war, but the origins of the war and the continual Tosh/Sony feud are pertinent toward your argument that Microsoft is somehow to blame for this current debacle over Hi-Def video formats!!!  Microsoft, if anything, is an outsider watching these 2 electronics giants duke it out, and yes they are more than likely watching carefully for any angle they can take to make more money (let's face it, all these companies care only about separating us consumers from our hard earned cash), but they are not perpetrating any kind of delay or continuation of this format war!!!

I just read the article.  I couldn't fit a lot of things that happened in that article because of size constraints.

I don't blame MS for necessarily starting the war.  I blame them for stringing this out and arguably the biggest smear campaign ($3.2 billion spent on it's viral marketing campaign against PS3 and Blu-ray) in history.  Toshiba is mainly to blame for starting the war.  Philips and Sony give up billions of dollars in royalties to not start a format war with with the superior format DVD.  Now, it's Toshiba's turn to do the same with Blu-ray and they didn't.  I guess Toshiba never heard of reciprocity.  Toshiba felt they had a chance to grab enough of the market to share it with Blu-ray because of MS promising to be a big backer of HD DVD. 

I believe this format war would have been a lot closer to a close out right now if it wasn't for MS.  I think it's obvious why.  The simple reason is that about half of the HD DVD players out by the end of Dec. were add-on drives.  Think about that for a minute.  Over 100,000 players for HD DVD are all of a sudden out of play.  On top of that, $3.2 billion of viral marketing campaign money...gone.  I believe that campaign is what has some of the people here believing what they currently believe about the PS3 and Blu-ray.  Blu-ray would have mostly doubled the SI (Since Inception) discs sold numbers before now.  Instead of 3:1 monthly sales ratio in favor of Blu-ray, it probably would have been at least closer to 6:1.  It would be almost like the Japanese HD market.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
This is the most telling part:
Quoted from Engadget:
"A contact close to HD DVD tells us that studios selling both formats are turning a profit on both and as long as they continue to turn a profit they will continue to support both sides. This makes us wonder what Universal, Fox and Disney are thinking. Why would they choose to only support one side when they are losing money by leaving out the other side? We have tried to ask them, they haven't responded. If studios can make money on both sides and they all start to support both sides this war could go on forever, in fact the only chance of a end is if Universal starts making Blu-ray movies or Fox and Disney start to make HD DVDs (but not both)."

Here is an answer to the question posed in the paragraph above.  It costs more money for the Blu-ray side to support both sides.  Blu-ray is just breaking even (according to a couple insiders) with it's sales being 3:1 over HD DVD monthly.  The man power hours and additional audio encoding tools to lower the bit rates and the file size of the title is too great to produce on HD DVD.  Disney is producing most titles on 50GB discs with uncompressed PCM and AVC@peaking at 40Mbps video (HD DVD's bandwidth/throughput limit is in the 30Mbps range for video and audio together).  All an HD DVD exclusive studio would need to do is port the title over to Blu-ray.  Their additional costs would be minimal in comparison to a Blu-ray studio producing both.

Bottom line...For the Blu-ray team it's too much effort and money for only potentially 25% more sales.

Quote:
This also might become extremely pertinent if the multi-format players begin to take off.  What impact will multi-format players have on this war???

Multi-format players could have a few effects.  The information I've imparted earlier in this post still remains in effect.  With that in mind, it allows studios to choose which format they want to release titles on (depending on the amount of multi-format players).  The expense of producing on two format is something dual supporting studios would like to get away from.

Another effect (although highly unlikely due to the reasons listed above) could be that all studios except Universal, MGM, Sony Pictures, Columbia Pictures go neutral because of this (again, depending on a very high number of multi-format players in the homes).  Of course, this in the least rational choice based on high multi-format players in homes.  A high saturation of multi-format players would allow exclusive movie studios to keep doing what they are doing.  Dual format supporting studios will choose a format to support going forward to save on costs of production.  That leads my to the final effect that could happen.

The last effect is basically no effect.  Everyone continues doing what they're doing movie studio-wise.  People could just choose to have both formats on the home front and we keep pedaling along without some format getting snuffed out early.

Quote:
Engadget still feels this is dead on, despite Blu-Rays edge in sales, as of April 12th (see link at the end)!!!

April 12th, still no end in sight!!!

I am sure A_S will dismiss these as being incorrect or biased in view however!!! 

Saying there is no end in sight kind of depends on your ability to see, right? 
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
I am sure A_S will dismiss these as being incorrect or biased in view however!!! 


Because A_S has no bias in his view whatsoever.


It really depends on what you are biased by, doesn't it?  I am biased by the facts as all should be.  You shouldn't be neutral when the facts aren't neutral, but I guess that's just my philosophy. 
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 5,635
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You've become a troll.

You bend "facts" thisaway & thataway, and you have convinced no one by them, other than you.

You are biased beyond belief. You ignore the reality that you have convinced no one here of anything other than you being the most annoying pest here.

If you are a shill, you need to return the money you've taken.

If you are not a shill, I'm sure Sony would appreciate you shutting up and not trying to "help" them any more.

You're blind in one eye, deaf in one ear, and cannot see or hear out of the others.

You have nothing, yet you keep on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and... continue to offend everyone who reads your blather.

I quit. Have a nice life, shill.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,203
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Saying there is no end in sight kind of depends on your ability to see, right? 


Quite right...and your ability to see is 100% dependent on how objective you are.  The more objective you are, the better your ability to see.

You have made a choice therefor your objectivity is clouded.  You only see the things that support your decision and dismiss anything that threatens it...illustrated quite well in the post above. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantBattling Butler
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 811
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AcS wrote: "Saying there is no end in sight kind of depends on your ability to see, right?"


... and we all know how far you see with your Blu-ray glasses
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantBattling Butler
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 811
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
I am sure A_S will dismiss these as being incorrect or biased in view however!!! 


Because A_S has no bias in his view whatsoever.


It really depends on what you are biased by, doesn't it?  I am biased by the facts as all should be.  You shouldn't be neutral when the facts aren't neutral, but I guess that's just my philosophy. 



Yes, you are biased by the "facts" that you select....  selective knowledge of hand-picked "facts" seen through your Blu-ray-only colored glasses does not equal objectivity or logical discourse. 

It's nothing but pure shill-speak propaganda.  Stop pretending to be a neutral observer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
You've become a troll.

Trolls tell you lies.  Trolls don't give you methodologies to how you arrive at a conclusion.  Maybe I should just ask you if you know what the definition of a TROLL is.  I challenge you to prove me wrong.  That's how you find out who's doing what.  Gets your numbers together and see if it contradicts what I have said.

Where are your explanations of your methodologies?  In other words, how did you come to the conclusions you come to?  This stuff should NOT be based on emotion.

Quote:
You bend "facts" thisaway & thataway, and you have convinced no one by them, other than you.

You take information and place it in a context that doesn't show the bigger version of the picture, but I'm twisting the "facts"?  You and others give certain scenerios but won't consider almost the exact same scenerios in the past because they had different outcomes than you care for.

Quote:
You are biased beyond belief. You ignore the reality that you have convinced no one here of anything other than you being the most annoying pest here.

If you are a shill, you need to return the money you've taken.

If you are not a shill, I'm sure Sony would appreciate you shutting up and not trying to "help" them any more.

You're blind in one eye, deaf in one ear, and cannot see or hear out of the others.

You have nothing, yet you keep on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and... continue to offend everyone who reads your blather.

I quit. Have a nice life, shill.

Don't get mad because you and others don't have much of a leg to stand on.  Usually people that don't have a strong argument get mad and quit.

Am I suppose to just agree with everything you say when the information you present doesn't create a complete picture?  Does that make sense?  Is that logical?

I wonder how many people here will be quiet if these trends continue and my future scenarios based on that information ends up being a lot closer to the truth than yours?  If that happens, at that point, you would have to say to yourself...was I wrong because I didn't see the big picture or ignored the facts where he did?

Until then...I will continue to post the facts and my theories based on those facts...period!

I guess some people are just too emotional.  Emotion tends to cloud judgement.  This fact is well documented.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantBattling Butler
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 811
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hey AcS, no matter how many time you say it, or plead with us to believe (because the all-knowing AcS says it's so) ................ the HiDef format war ain't over:


http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6434506.html

HD DVD set-top players top 100K sold

Blu-ray has edge with PlayStation 3s consoles in market
By Jennifer Netherby -- Video Business, 4/17/2007

APRIL 17 | Consumers have bought more than 100,000 HD DVD set-top players in the U.S. since the format’s introduction a year ago, the HD DVD Promotional Group said today.

That doesn’t include sales of HD DVD PC drives or the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive.

HD DVD is the first high-definition format to surpass the 100,000 milestone on set-top players. However, there are substantially more Blu-ray Disc players in the market because of the PlayStation 3. Blu-ray players weren’t introduced until late June, giving HD DVD a head start.

The PlayStation 3 edge has given Blu-ray movie sales a more than two-to-one sales lead during the first few months of the year. But HD DVD sales continue to grow, and more manufacturers plan to produce players on the format.

Toshiba was the first manufacturer to release HD DVD players. Earlier this year, LG Electronics released a dual HD DVD/Blu-ray player, and Samsung has announced plans to release its own dual-format player later this year.

Chinese manufacturers are expected to begin producing lower-cost HD DVD players later this year.

Starting at $599, HD DVD set-top players cost about half of most Blu-ray stand-alone players. Toshiba reduced the price of its bottom-line HD DVD player to $499 on April 1 to spur more sales.

"Toshiba remains committed to drive sales with strategic pricing and marketing to complement the rapid market adoption of HDTVs," said Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Retailers are showing a significant increase in sales volume this month so far. On Amazon.com, our HD DVD players continue to rank among the Top 10 bestsellers of all DVD players, which says a lot about how consumers relate to price."

With such titles as The Complete Matrix Trilogy coming in May from Warner Home Video and more than 70 new titles expected to be released before the end of July, HD DVD owners will have more than 300 titles worldwide to choose from this summer, with more to come in the fall and holiday seasons. (See a full list of titles coming to HD DVD and Blu-ray.)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorFunkyLA
Will you remove your hat?
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,136
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You know, this "WAS" an interesting thread - now... it isn't.

Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast [oooh now in Widescreen]
Ah... well you see.... I thought I'd say something more interesting... but cannot think of anything..... oh well
And to those of you who have disabled viewing of these signature files "hello" (or not) Registered: July 27, 2004
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,203
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Usually people that don't have a strong argument get mad and quit.


Like you did with me? 


Thanks, that was priceless. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
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Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting VibroCount:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
I am sure A_S will dismiss these as being incorrect or biased in view however!!! 


Because A_S has no bias in his view whatsoever.


It really depends on what you are biased by, doesn't it?  I am biased by the facts as all should be.  You shouldn't be neutral when the facts aren't neutral, but I guess that's just my philosophy. 



Yes, you are biased by the "facts" that you select....  selective knowledge of hand-picked "facts" seen through your Blu-ray-only colored glasses does not equal objectivity or logical discourse. 

It's nothing but pure shill-speak propaganda.  Stop pretending to be a neutral observer

If the FACTS points out that something else is better than Blu-ray, I WILL go with whatever that is.  Not one piece of information that can be easily misinterpreted, but the larger picture.  Unfortunately, that is HVD, which is too far away to consider.

I know that people tend to believe a few over one.  That is the way most humans react to an emotionally charged person making claims that tend to make them more popular or more excepted while increasingly decreasing the popularity of the other.  It's life.  Does that make what they say truth?  Of course, not.  It rallies emotional charge people and tend to create an emotional bonding with the people that cries out.  It's classic.  Many people have no choice but to fall for that.

Just don't think I will sit idle while additional things that are not being taken into consideration that should be are overlooked.  I will say it even amongst deaf ears, because there will be someone that isn't deaf out there.

Another thing I find funny is that when Amir was here, few people said anything about him being a shill (by very definition he is a shill).  But, some people here are calling me that now.  I also find it funny that this place has been a HD DVD fanboy haven for quite sometime (just read the old forum pages).  If I was posting misinformation, FUD, and out right lies about Blu-ray, I hardly think these people reacting now would have reacted at all.  Oh well...
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorFunkyLA
Will you remove your hat?
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,136
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Can we "all" pick our dummies (pacifiers) off the floor now?
Both sides of this argument are guilty
I suggest we all just "wait and see" as no good is going to come of just batting each other to death over it.

We shall all know, soon enough... let us just wait, and let this thread die

I thank you
Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast [oooh now in Widescreen]
Ah... well you see.... I thought I'd say something more interesting... but cannot think of anything..... oh well
And to those of you who have disabled viewing of these signature files "hello" (or not) Registered: July 27, 2004
 Last edited: by FunkyLA
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
Xbox Live: squeekyfoot
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 550
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Quoting FunkyLA:
Quote:
Can we "all" pick our dummies (pacifiers) off the floor now?
Both sides of this argument are guilty
I suggest we all just "wait and see" as no good is going to come of just batting each other to death over it.

We shall all know, soon enough... let us just wait, and let this thread die

I thank you


This thread is like the song that never ends
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorFunkyLA
Will you remove your hat?
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,136
Posted:
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
Quoting FunkyLA:
Quote:
Can we "all" pick our dummies (pacifiers) off the floor now?
Both sides of this argument are guilty
I suggest we all just "wait and see" as no good is going to come of just batting each other to death over it.

We shall all know, soon enough... let us just wait, and let this thread die

I thank you

This thread is like the song that never ends

The song that never ends?
Hummmm, the song that never ends...
Nope, I don't know that one, how does it go?
Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast [oooh now in Widescreen]
Ah... well you see.... I thought I'd say something more interesting... but cannot think of anything..... oh well
And to those of you who have disabled viewing of these signature files "hello" (or not) Registered: July 27, 2004
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
Posts: 405
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As far as Microsoft dragging this format war out longer than it needs to be, I hardly see any evidence to support that argument.  You continually spout off about numbers and facts, so show us the facts that support your disdain that Microsoft is the evil doer in this entire sorbid affair!!!  And you do know of course that the main reason that SONY doesn't use the better VC-1 codec is because there is a proprietary royalty involved that SONY would have to give to Microsoft, so plug that into this equation.

As far as the DVD situation between SONY and Toshiba, most of the major players in the electronics industy supported DVD vs. the SONY/Phillips backed medium, don't try to make Toshiba into the bad guy then.  You also cannot blame Toshiba and its supporters for taking the DVD and attempting to advance it into the next gen medium.  It makes the most sense to adapt existing technology (when possible) and build upon it rather than create something entirely new (unless of course you are someone like SONY who will benefit from everyone adapting this new technology).

In my opinion SONY and Microsoft are just the 2 sides of the same corporate, money grubbing, coin.
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