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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Neill:
You disappoint me. You might not like what I say or disagree with my opinions...but I have never in any way called you any kind of name or thrown a personal insult at you. Now will I though I am subjected by many including yourself to such behavior, I have been called all sorts of names (most of which I will not list) including the one which you used in calling me a bigot.
I told you that while personally I understood what you were doing and why, but that i agreed with pete on the Rules, and I was not alone. When you couldn't get it in properly, you decided to sneakl it in the back door, which i find highly offensive, I don't care how honorable you feel your motive was, in my book you blatantly violated the rules, regardless of what I might think personally, as I have said before what i think is irrelevant. I even told you that if you copied the cast and crew data to the PM thread I would happily copy it for myself, but again that is because I understood the whys and wherefores and personally accepted it, but personal acceptance has NOTHING to do with the Rules. You have had some people support your position and still others who agree, as I do, with Pete.
I gather from Bob's comment I am not the only one you hurl derisive comments at. You want to disagree with my ideas FINE, but to then hurl personal invectives is way over the top.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | @ Bob
I absolutely think you should repair the damage, again this is despite what I might think personally.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
@ Bob
I absolutely think you should repair the damage, again this is despite what I might think personally.
Skip If you are not thinking yourself, I wonder who's thinking this for you...  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bob9000: Quote:
Of course, except for the SRP, there is no difference between the Canadian and US releases for this title. I should know. Maybe I will change my profiles over to Canada and fix Pantheon's little willful mistakes. Or would that make him give me negative feedback and call me a criminal again? I NEVER called you a criminal!!!!!! What I said was that the NO voters were "obstructively keeping good information out of the database and that's criminal." Not that YOU were a criminal; but that the attitude was IMO. I still feel that way. Keeping data out of the online that improves the current profile is ridiculous as far as I am concerned. I'm sorry if my choice of phrasing was offensive; I'm usually much more careful with how I say things. As for your suggested fix....go ahead. At least you won't have to do much to the profile. I certainly won't be voting no and keeping data out of the online db. Personally, I will vote neutral as I feel there is a lot of ambiguity in the rules regarding this section. I CAN see things from both sides. I feel one way and Skip and others feel another. Not a problem, as such, but...when the other viewpoints basically tell me I am wrong; how am I meant to respond? Do I just quietly agree with them and back down? Or do I fight for what I believe to be correct? In this instance I felt strongly enough to fight, and there is nothing wrong with that. P.S. If you misconstrued any comment I made to you as an insult, Bob, I apologise. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
iincluding the one which you used in calling me a bigot.
Skip Which for the record was after you made some blatantly anti-gay and racist statements and supposed jokes in this forum. Comments which resulted in my absence from the forum for many months. What you don't seem to understand is that from your perspective you, Pete, Bob and others are RIGHT and I am wrong and you think that I am the one who should back down. This is always your position. Whereas, I felt strongly that I was correct and decided to stand-up for my viewpoint. I felt I was right too - which is just as valid as your view. I'm sorry you feel that I 'blatantly violated the rules' as that was not my intention (and for the record, not what I feel I have done). I genuinely had the profiles set up for the wrong location. I corrected that error and submitted what I consider to be 100% correct information. I don't see where the problem lies. The screeners let the information go through - and, as you and others, keep putting the onus on the screeners to have the final say; I would say the decision has been made. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,029 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
... you decided to sneakl it in the back door, which i find highly offensive ... BTW, wasn't there a guy, a few weeks ago, who submitted cast & crew for dozens of profiles he didn't own? | | | | Matthias |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | I find a few of the last couple comments directed at Pantheon rather offense. Instead of handing out red arrows I am choosing to comment on it here as I feel it is more constructive.
1) Firstly, to say that Pantheon is unwilling to accept others opinions is a ridiculous comment. As it seems that those that disagree with him are even more unwilling to accept his (and others, yes, he wasn't the only one that read the rule as he did) opinion.
2) second, To claim he is damaging the database, or that it needs to be fixed is basically calling his, and others, interpretation of the rules wrong. Yet I saw no hard arguments or comments from Ken/Gerri to say this is the case.
3) If you're going to use his contribution to 'fix' the US locality version, why didn't you just accept it to the US locality then 'fix' it. Its the same amount of work (actually less because you don't need to download the other profile and change the locality). However, even though he supports you doing this (amazing considering he is so unwilling to accept others opinions), I find it quite dispicable that you would use all his hard work, after fighting so hard to prevent it from getting in the database, to better your own profile. Also, if you do this, I expect that you still do a full audit to ensure that the Canadian Locality discs match the US locality discs, otherwise you are in clear violation of the rules as your the data you would be submitting would not be from the disc.
4) to say that he is trying to damage the database, sneak bad data into the database, or however you want to phrase it is very offensive. You are basically accusing him of sabatoge, yet then as stated in point 3 plan to use (or support others using) his 'bad' data to complete the same title's profile under a different locality. If the data he is entering is o bad and damaging, why would you consider using it for your own profile.
Pantheon did nothing that violates the rules. He submitted the Canadian locality profile for a Canadian locality disc he owns. Taking the information per the rules and the screeners accepted it. Actually, I could argue that, while unknowingly, when he was submitting it as the US locality it was against the rules because the information wasn't off the US discs. He realized this error and corrected it, and resubmitted. Thats more than I can say for some people.
-Agrare |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
iincluding the one which you used in calling me a bigot.
Skip
Which for the record was after you made some blatantly anti-gay and racist statements and supposed jokes in this forum.
Comments which resulted in my absence from the forum for many months.
What you don't seem to understand is that from your perspective you, Pete, Bob and others are RIGHT and I am wrong and you think that I am the one who should back down. This is always your position.
Whereas, I felt strongly that I was correct and decided to stand-up for my viewpoint. I felt I was right too - which is just as valid as your view.
I'm sorry you feel that I 'blatantly violated the rules' as that was not my intention (and for the record, not what I feel I have done).
I genuinely had the profiles set up for the wrong location. I corrected that error and submitted what I consider to be 100% correct information. I don't see where the problem lies.
The screeners let the information go through - and, as you and others, keep putting the onus on the screeners to have the final say; I would say the decision has been made. Rationalizintg your name-calling behavior is unacceptable, Neill. If you believe thatn 7you can sit in judgement of me then I most certainly can judge you and your behavior. I have never caled you a name...nor will I. Rationalize your behavior all you wish. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
I find a few of the last couple comments directed at Pantheon rather offense. Instead of handing out red arrows I am choosing to comment on it here as I feel it is more constructive.
1) Firstly, to say that Pantheon is unwilling to accept others opinions is a ridiculous comment. As it seems that those that disagree with him are even more unwilling to accept his (and others, yes, he wasn't the only one that read the rule as he did) opinion.
2) second, To claim he is damaging the database, or that it needs to be fixed is basically calling his, and others, interpretation of the rules wrong. Yet I saw no hard arguments or comments from Ken/Gerri to say this is the case.
3) If you're going to use his contribution to 'fix' the US locality version, why didn't you just accept it to the US locality then 'fix' it. Its the same amount of work (actually less because you don't need to download the other profile and change the locality). However, even though he supports you doing this (amazing considering he is so unwilling to accept others opinions), I find it quite dispicable that you would use all his hard work, after fighting so hard to prevent it from getting in the database, to better your own profile. Also, if you do this, I expect that you still do a full audit to ensure that the Canadian Locality discs match the US locality discs, otherwise you are in clear violation of the rules as your the data you would be submitting would not be from the disc.
4) to say that he is trying to damage the database, sneak bad data into the database, or however you want to phrase it is very offensive. You are basically accusing him of sabatoge, yet then as stated in point 3 plan to use (or support others using) his 'bad' data to complete the same title's profile under a different locality. If the data he is entering is o bad and damaging, why would you consider using it for your own profile.
Pantheon did nothing that violates the rules. He submitted the Canadian locality profile for a Canadian locality disc he owns. Taking the information per the rules and the screeners accepted it. Actually, I could argue that, while unknowingly, when he was submitting it as the US locality it was against the rules because the information wasn't off the US discs. He realized this error and corrected it, and resubmitted. Thats more than I can say for some people.
-Agrare Agrare: You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. In my opinion he most certainly did violate the Rules INTENTIONALLY. Once he figured he could not get his data into R1 US, he then chose to take an approach where he was leslikely to meet resistance. You seem to be operating and an incomplete view of the facts. And comments such as that are likewise offensive. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, I respect your opinion and your vast knowledge of both the program and of various aspects of hollywood. But I believe my facts (I have read, and actively participated in both this and the original bewitched thread) are as complete as they can be. I can accept (and see) that the rule can be interpreted in both ways, I just happen to agree with a different interpretation than you.
I have seen no arguments that would invalidate the interpretation of the rules taken by myself, Pantheon, and others. Nor have I seen a comment from Ken\Gerri to suggest that it is wrong. Therefore, I see no rule violation. If however this was done after a clarifying statement from Ken\Gerri that was in opposition with said interpretation I would agree with you. But we have had no statement one way or the other. I also, however, that if that were the case Pantheon would not have contributed such data.
But the simple facts remain that a) the data is more complete than it was before b) others plan to use this data to fill in their US locality version c) people have already stated they are going to 'correct' it.
End result, everyone is benifiting from the work Pantheon did, everyone will get what they ultimatly want. And, here's the biggie, the users are ultimatly working together (though its together in disagreement which is quite interesting if you think about it) to create a complete profile for the bewitched series. Please tell me where the problem with any of that lies?
-Agrare |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agrare:
I am not(oops) telling you that your opinion is invalid, it is your opinion, and i can understand it. Likewise I have my opinion and it is also not shared alone, and is just as valid as your opinion.
My point relative to Neill's actions that i found so disgusting is that he tried on at least two ocassions to put it through R1 US, when that faileds he then brought the discussion here and tried again. While this discussion was ongoing he ultimately decided to withdraw his Contribution, now we learn that he despite the fact that several of us believed he was violating the Rules and told him so privately and publicly, he decided to take the data through a back door where he was less likely to meet resistance, in short his acvtion wasa deliberate and willful and I find that highly offensive.
But I still acknowledge your opinion, I understand it and to a large degree agree with it. But that agreement has nothing to do with my view of the rules, so while I agree with you in principle, it is in violation of the Rules.
We don't have the ability to simply ignore the rules and i certainly hope that someone will undo the damage done by Neill.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Which for the record was after you made some blatantly anti-gay and racist statements and supposed jokes in this forum.
Comments which resulted in my absence from the forum for many months. I remember this and it was inexcusable behavior. Quote:
What you don't seem to understand is that from your perspective you, Pete, Bob and others are RIGHT and I am wrong and you think that I am the one who should back down. This is always your position.
Whereas, I felt strongly that I was correct and decided to stand-up for my viewpoint. I felt I was right too - which is just as valid as your view. I know this was aimed at Skip, but I wanted to respond. You brought this to the forums so, I assumed, you wanted opinions. That is what I gave. As I have told many people in the past, you don't have to agree with my opinion just as I don't have to agree with your's. Simply contribute based on your understanding of the rules and let the process run it's course. Would I have done it differently? Probably, but that is me and you are you. We are talking TV series here so I always have to do extra work if I want to submit anyway. Quote:
I'm sorry you feel that I 'blatantly violated the rules' as that was not my intention (and for the record, not what I feel I have done).
I genuinely had the profiles set up for the wrong location. I corrected that error and submitted what I consider to be 100% correct information. I don't see where the problem lies.
The screeners let the information go through - and, as you and others, keep putting the onus on the screeners to have the final say; I would say the decision has been made. Again, I know this was aimed as Skip, but I wanted to respond. While I do believe there are people who violate the rules on purpose, I do not believe you are one of them. As I said, I assumed you wanted opinions so, I gave mine. Just because I don't agree, doesn't mean that I believe you have nefarious motives. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. In my opinion he most certainly did violate the Rules INTENTIONALLY. Once he figured he could not get his data into R1 US, he then chose to take an approach where he was leslikely to meet resistance. You seem to be operating and an incomplete view of the facts. And comments such as that are likewise offensive.
Skip Sorry Skip, he has just as many 'facts' as you do. The only one who knows whether or not Pantheon has the Canadian versions is Pantheon. That means you are making assumptions based on supposition. Have you seen his DVDs to know what the locality is? No, I don't believe you have. You need to stop throwing accusations at people without proof.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Agrare:
I am telling you that your opinion is invalid, it is your opinion, and i can understand it. Likewise I have my opinion and it is also not shared alone, and is just as valid as your opinion.
My point relative to Neill's actions that i found so disgusting is that he tried on at least two ocassions to put it through R1 US, when that faileds he then brought the discussion here and tried again. While this discussion was ongoing he ultimately decided to withdraw his Contribution, now we learn that he despite the fact that several of us believed he was violating the Rules and told him so privately and publicly, he decided to take the data through a back door where he was less likely to meet resistance, in short his acvtion wasa deliberate and willful and I find that highly offensive.
But I still acknowledge your opinion, I understand it and to a large degree agree with it. But that agreement has nothing to do with my view of the rules, so while I agree with you in principle, it is in violation of the Rules.
We don't have the ability to simply ignore the rules and i certainly hope that someone will undo the damage done by Neill.
Skip You are accusing me of something I did NOT do. Please stop. I find your accusations offensive and unfair. By all means have your theories on what I did; but please keep them to yourself and not vent them in an open forum. Damaging my reputation is uncalled for when you have absolutley no evidence to support your accusations. It seems to me that you would rather call me a liar than take my word for what happened. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | We have here forum rules, contribution rules, but nobody should ignore Skip's rules:
1/ Skip is always right
2/ When Skip is wrong, he is right to be wrong
3/ When Skip says something and some days after, just the contrary, only him may decide which version you have wrongly understood.
4/ Skip is often insulted, but he never insults anybody. If you think you are insulted by him, it is because you are too stupid to understand it is a funny joke.
5/ Skip tells you what to do or not do, and always gives the good example. For instance, you must not use headshots for the database on the site. This is why he took a photo of himself as an avatar.
6/ Skip never lies...
7/ When contributions rules are not clear, only Skip should be allowed to suggest Ken what to do.
8/ If you do not follow Skip's rules, you'll intentionally sabotage the online database. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oh and calling me bigoted was approprriate, Neill? Give me a break You have one set of behavior for you and one for me. Sorry, my friend, I am not buying what you are selling. Ah but I see you are exercising your voice. what a surprise.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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