Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Goblins:

There is a reason in Rick's behavior that his advice was not appreciated. He wiil have tio show me that he wishes to change HIS tone towards me. He has more than once participated in situations which i can only call incitement. Rick in my book, because of a long history, which if he is not aware of should be, is a very nasty person, this involves things which I have watched Rick do elsewhere and "games" he has played. But if I see a genuine desire, which he did not demonstrate today,  then I will be only to happy to let bygones be bygones.

I will say I was disappointed in his approach today, I felt he was smarter than that, iI still do, I think he didn' think it through.

I know all this,
the fact that it came from an unexpected corner doesn't make the advice as such bad.


Bumping the proposal from here (page 5 !!)(in case it somehow got forgotten what this thread was about)

Quote:
Moderated post = 1st warning = verbal warning and 30 day probationary period
2nd moderated post in probationary period = 24 hour ban and 60 day probationary period
3rd moderated post in probationary period = 72 hour ban and 90 probationary period
4th moderated post in probationary period = 7 day ban and 6 month probationary period
5th moderated post in probationary period = 30 day ban and 1 year probationary period
6th moderated post in probationary period  = 60 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
7th moderated post in probationary period  = 90 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
8th moderated post in probationary period  = 120 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
9th moderated post in probationary period  = 180 day ban and probationary period of 1 year
10th moderated post in probationary period  = 1 year ban and probationary period of 2 year

If you have one of your posts moderated because you quoted a post that was moderated, it would not fall under these quidelines.

EDIT: I'd still support this.
It will give reproducable results (at least if postings get moderated)
It's about as fair as a ban-system can be
It really might help to calm down this forum (if only by removing all disturbers)

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Rick:

You may have thought you made a civil request, but it was not received as such because you only demonstrated a failure to comprehend the issue. Where was that YOU told KinkyC and Ace that theri unprovoked assaults were uncivil and counter-productive, rick, where, where did you do that.

And you know I didn't use the red arrow how exactly? As I calmly said (3 times now) that is the tool Invelos gave us to alert them of offensive posts. What I get for that is a direct order from you to mind my own business and now you insult my intelligence.

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NOWHERE that's where.

Again, you have no idea if I used the red arrow or not.

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But because I try to defend myself, you call me out

I did no such thing For the 4th time now I politely requested you use the tools Ken gave us to alert the moderators of offensive posts.

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...go to hell.

really?

I hope those who say we should all just get along are reading this.

Quote:
I can and will forgive you Rick, but you have to show me FIRST. I have tried many times over the yeasr, i will try no more, I will make the offer and have. You want peace, you can have it, just show me.

I ask you something nicely then you tell me to go to hell and follow it up with this?

OK then. Have it your way. Please forgive me for trying to be polite and act civil. I promise in the future any interaction we have will be nasty and anything but polite and civil.

Quoting Antares:

Quote:

What's the point, it's been two days since I started this thread, and not one bit of input from the one person who it was constructed for.

You are correct. a huge number of people want to see change. Of those a huge majority like your proposal. Unfortunately without any input from Ken it is a waste of time.

There is always the chance he doesn't see the same problems we do. 

There is also the chance he likes things the way they are. 

He has told us in the past we don't need to be polite here. He has also more recently told us people do get different treatment based on something (not sure exactly what).  Who are we to complain?

Quoting goblinsdoitall:

Quote:

It really might help to calm down this forum (if only by removing all disturbers)

Agreed!  I don't think anyone (Ok most) are intending this for particular user.  All I want is consisetncy and rules in place to deal with unacceptable behavior.

I appreciate you trying to get the thread back on topic, unfortunately I agree with Antares.  The poll is a landslide and demonstrates the majority would like something in place to curb the negative place forums have become.  I will also admit I have strayed off topic, as others have as well, because it just illustrates how the current system isn't working.  After I made the post on using the red arrows to identify a bad post it did hit me that I as doing the exact opposite of what I just posted.  The irony wasn't lost on me, but I think it just illustrates what is wrong.  If a system was in place I'd happily take the punishment but as it is now nothing happens.  I apologize and will do my best to stay on topic instead of jumping into the scrum.

The thread really has no place to go until we hear from Ken.  I'm not sure why he hasn't, maybe he's just buy with other things and doesn't have the time to deal with the issue right now.  But almost any input from him would be beneficial, from an outright no, that the forums are fine as is to that he is considering the proposal.  But not hearing a peep from him is certainly discouraging.

DoubleDown:

As I have said repeatedly, it starts with users like yourself. I dion't care what you think your excuse is, but you come in out of nowhere and have been nothing but confrontational in the several weeks you decided to start posting. Then we have Kinky C and Ace who decided it was perfectly all right for THEM to launch totally unprovoked attacks. No such attacks in the eyes of this threads OP are perfectly acceptable because they are not the target.

I will repeat what i have said previously. I will NOT unilaterally disarm, i have done so in the past and been hurt by it. But I AM willing and I will respond to those who wish to let bygones be bygones, I will NOT however tolerate unprovoked and insulting attacks by ANYONE. Antares your OP was as transparent as a piece of glass and I presume that you will not try to deny it, I continue to be amused by your self-portrait, I hope that it does you justice. You want peace you can have peace, i want it, But don't expect me to not defend myself the scalawags and people here who have no honor.

DoubleDown:

I have been clear in my opinions of your postings of late and you continue to be very confrontational. as for newbie snacks, that is something that i haven't mentioned in years...get over it. Good grief, the way you people hang onto things.

Your willingness to confrontational and highly judgemental non-stop are not appreciated and will not get you anywhere with me, I suggest that self-moderate your tone. It is users like yourself who will not take notice of their own behavior and attempt to self-moderate that cause the cries for moderation. The last several pages of this particular thread have been quite useful and productive, but then a couple users decided to light a fire and it has resulted in the typical scrum, and DoubleDown, in my view you are a participant in that scrum, and as long as I view you as a participant, you may well be well-meaning but to me you seem....hostile.

You will really expect me to unilaterally disarm, when i view you as a part of the problem and not the solution. Wow, that's ummm...weird.

Neill:

There is more to attack and insult than simple name-calling. If you do not think that Kinky's first post was not hostile and unprovoked then I am lost, I simply don't know what to say to you. As for Ace with nearly every post he makes he reveals his personal agenda. He makes it very clear that he holds a user in contempt and wants him banned, that in my book is unacceptable behavior and it was also unprovoked.

I found and continue to find both of the postings to be highly objectionable.

Quoting Kathy:

Quote:
<sigh>

I give up.

I know, Kathy, I know. You've been trying so hard. On the other hand, I think it's not always easy for people to change themselves or let bygones be bygones. And I apply that statement first and foremost to myself. I think all one can do is start by trying to better oneself and move on from there.

Regarding the topic at hand, if I'm allowed to express my honest opinion I must say that had the forums been my first contact with the software, I probably wouldn't have bought it. Truth be, had I not then I think I would have missed out on a great tool to keep track of my collection and it would've been my loss. Fortunately, my first contact was through the demo and that fairly quickly pulled me in.

I do believe, however, that as well for the community and Invelos, it would be beneficial if there is a welcoming atmosphere for newbies. It's natural to have question and suggestions when starting here and as a community I believe we need to be welcome them and help them understand the rules and workings of the program. Also, we need to be receptive to new ideas, both from new and longstanding members. Any person can come up with a good idea or suggestion, so let's not dismiss new people's thoughts just because they are new. The warmer the welcome, the more receptive those users will be to our guidelines, suggestions and help.

Finally, I think that a community is served by having a clear set of not only rules (what we now have), but also moderation policy. In making such a policy publicly known, all users know what they can expect. If policy states that a user gets a one day ban after his second warning, then a user, any user, knows he shouldn't be surprised to get banned the third time he makes an offense. I think clear rules, clear moderation policy and a fair and equal application to all of them is the best way to create a better community. I don't think rules need to be overly strict, but I do think they need to be enforced correctly and equally to all members.

Well, that's how I feel about it.