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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
But it is not a capitalization rule, which is what we are talking about here. In his last post, even Surfeur admits this...bolding by me:
snip
As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization. To me, it doesn't matter if it's "capitalization" or "spelling" or "grammar". The point is, according to the current direction from Invelos, we are to deliberately introduce errors into the database by converting GARCON to Garcon instead of Garçon....errors which do not exist in the on-screen credit. | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote: By the way, since these accented characters are so vitally important in certain languages, why in the world would ALL CAPS words omit them so frequently? If I remember my history correctly it dates back to the invention of the printing press where it was found there simply wasn't room to include the accent on uppercase typeface so it was dropped (or in the case of Italian moved to the side of the letter I believe). This lasted for quite a long time so became ingrained in the culture, so when the technology advanced enough to start including them, people still tended not to. I believe it's only in the past few decades that this practice is starting to die out. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote: That makes sense to me. Assuming if you go by the rules (the common language of the title), it would be pretty damn ignorant not to keep spelling and grammar in consideration. I completely agree. I support the rule that says that spelling mistakes in overviews are to be kept in, but to ignore the language of the overview and actually introduce spelling mistakes into the data seems nonsensical to me. You have me confused north. I think I agree, typos that exist in Overview are to be copied, but it otherwise sounds to me like you are referring to user-generated typos, which no one will disagree with correcting, none of us is a perfect typist, we all make mistakes. i have never said or meant to imply that a user-generated should not be corrected. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
But it is not a capitalization rule, which is what we are talking about here. In his last post, even Surfeur admits this How could it not be part of the rules how to capitalise and de-capitalise text?
But I have found something else. Unfortunately its only a quote from the printed dictionnaire d'orthographe published by Le Robert.
Quote: Il n'est pas d'usage de mettre les accents aux lettres capiles...Mais cela peut créer des équivoques...
Si un titre de journal annonce:
UN POLICIER TUE
tue ou tué? Il faut dans ce cas accentuer les capitales. Again its only the rules for converting lower case to upper case. But what it essentially says, it's that you only have to put accents on capitals if it would produce any ambiguity. Therefore we can assume that the all caps text in non-abiguous.
Again as a corollary we can conclude that the conversion from all caps to lower/mixed case has to result in only one unique correct spelling.
Therefore the conversion from E to é is mandatory if it is the only non-ambiguous correct result. You can conclude perhaps, we is an overstatement. i don' reach your conclusion., So please e careful, you don't speak for me. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: "Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written" You do understand the meaning of EXACTLY...yes. Please stop using this argument. We DO NOT copy the Overview (or the credits) EXACTLY when they are in all caps! We convert them to mixed case. That is the whole point of the discussion. What is the proper way to convert them since we CANNOT enter them "exactly as written". | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
If I remember my history correctly it dates back to the invention of the printing press where it was found there simply wasn't room to include the accent on uppercase typeface so it was dropped (or in the case of Italian moved to the side of the letter I believe). This lasted for quite a long time so became ingrained in the culture, so when the technology advanced enough to start including them, people still tended not to. I believe it's only in the past few decades that this practice is starting to die out. This is 100% right. (but it dies very very slowly... ) | | | Images from movies |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
But it is not a capitalization rule, which is what we are talking about here. In his last post, even Surfeur admits this...bolding by me:
snip
As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization.
To me, it doesn't matter if it's "capitalization" or "spelling" or "grammar".
The point is, according to the current direction from Invelos, we are to deliberately introduce errors into the database by converting GARCON to Garcon instead of Garçon....errors which do not exist in the on-screen credit. You see an error, I don't I see Garçon as pure fiction based on the data you presented. Fiction and imagination, true to the language but NOT to the data. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
If I remember my history correctly it dates back to the invention of the printing press where it was found there simply wasn't room to include the accent on uppercase typeface so it was dropped (or in the case of Italian moved to the side of the letter I believe). This lasted for quite a long time so became ingrained in the culture, so when the technology advanced enough to start including them, people still tended not to. I believe it's only in the past few decades that this practice is starting to die out.
This is 100% right. (but it dies very very slowly... ) And by the time it does die, French may have joined Latin among the worlds dead languages. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote: By the way, since these accented characters are so vitally important in certain languages, why in the world would ALL CAPS words omit them so frequently? That's a good question. But it happens and is allowed in some languages in some cases. Even L'Académie française has to admit this. We have to deal with that fact. |
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Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
You see an error, I don't I see Garçon as pure fiction based on the data you presented. Well, caleçon is underpants. çalecon means nothing for me, but perhaps are you familiar with it ? | | | Images from movies |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: You see an error, I don't I see Garçon as pure fiction based on the data you presented. Fiction and imagination, true to the language but NOT to the data. I believe it would be more accurate to say that you refuse to see an error. Garcon is not a word in French, therefore, to spell it that way is an error. | | | Hal |
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Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,851 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: The point is, according to the current direction from Invelos, we are to deliberately introduce errors into the database by converting GARCON to Garcon instead of Garçon....errors which do not exist in the on-screen credit. Then you're telling us that possession and perusal of the DVD is not enough to allow for proper data entry of some DVDs, and that special "outside" knowledge will be required. If this is so then we really should be reproducing exactly what we see on the packaging or onscreen, whether it's ALL CAPS or not, and not try to interpret anything, including capitalization/spelling. --------------- |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: As has been noted diacrits have nothing to with spelling. Huh, how come? |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote: Then you're telling us that possession and perusal of the DVD is not enough to allow for proper data entry of some DVDs, and that special "outside" knowledge will be required. If this is so then we really should be reproducing exactly what we see on the packaging or onscreen, whether it's ALL CAPS or not, and not try to interpret anything, including capitalization/spelling. Technically true, but in reality how often will it actually happen? The majority of people buying the DVDs that are affected will most likely have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the language concerned. I see it just like the common name, as long as you contribute what you see in good faith there's nothing to worry about. I'm sure in the long run any unintentional errors will be corrected. |
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Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote: "Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written" You do understand the meaning of EXACTLY...yes.
Please stop using this argument. We DO NOT copy the Overview (or the credits) EXACTLY when they are in all caps! We convert them to mixed case. That is the whole point of the discussion. What is the proper way to convert them since we CANNOT enter them "exactly as written". Thank you hal - I would be interested in discussion focusing on what the proper way(s) to convert them would be. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: You can conclude perhaps, we is an overstatement. i don' reach your conclusion., So please e careful, you don't speak for me. I have never tried to speak for you. But since I'm not alone, we is correct. That's grammar, not spelling. |
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