This forum reminds me of the current ratings that both the Tonight Show is getting and other late night talk shows.. and that is we're all sitting around waiting for the other shoe(s) to drop..  why?..
I've been noticing the amount of 'traffic' Invelos is getting these days.. and Usually it is around the 24 to 42 mark for 'named' members to log into the forums.. this past week it has been around the 35 to 52 mark .. and....,,,  I just checked now for a midweek Wednesday 12 noon pst  and it is 62 !!  I've never seen it that high... 

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Ouch. Squeaky hammer. OK, point made, I've changed the system to take at least 24 full hours to unban.

Thanks.  I think that's a good idea.  I'm guessing those who were effected the most learned the system and started working around it.

I think the next step that is needed for real change would be to increase the time for repeat offenders.  Start with one or two 24 hours bans and keep increasing that if the behavior doesn't change.  I think a few week long or month long bans would do wonders for morale around here.

Quoting Mark Harrison:

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Quoting Ken Cole:

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Ouch. Squeaky hammer. OK, point made, I've changed the system to take at least 24 full hours to unban.

Thanks.  I think that's a good idea.  I'm guessing those who were effected the most learned the system and started working around it.

I think the next step that is needed for real change would be to increase the time for repeat offenders.  Start with one or two 24 hours bans and keep increasing that if the behavior doesn't change.  I think a few week long or month long bans would do wonders for morale around here.

I totally agree! 

Quoting Ken Cole:

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The analysis is incorrect.  Temp "single day" bans currently last until midnight CST, regardless of when they are instituted.  You can certainly argue that this kind of ban is not strong enough, but cannot deduce that  the user has not received a temp ban.

In the past month, several users received these bans, and absolutely none of these temp bans were for going off topic.

Currently we're working on response times for edits and these temp bans.  If that can reign in the incendiary comments, great.  If not, these will be extended to multi-day bans, and further as required.

I'm sorry Ken. I wasn't going to post anymore but I have to speak out against this injustice. The analysis is correct.

I was banned from Sunday evening (Belgian time) and the ban was still in effect on Monday evening when I went to bed, meaning it must've been a ban that lasted at least close to 24h.

During that same period, the other member involved was able to post in the forums as well as enter remarks in his contribution votes. I could vote on contributions but my remarks were automatically erased, a result of the ban as well (I was surprised that after voting no, where a remark is obligatory, my no vote appeared without the message I entered).

I have kept the screenshots to prove all this.

Please stop pretending like you treat all users the same way. It's your website, forum and software and you have every right to run it the way you want. But please stop pretending like there are no double standards being employed, as this is obviously the case, if not by you, then at least by members of your staff. It is this kind of unprofessional behavior that makes we want to leave this forum behind. 

Quoting Ken Cole:

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All bans should have rolled over at midnight, however it's possible if you were logged in during the rollover, it could extend until the next rollover.  It used to be that authorizations were only read at the time of login, which could cause this and also cause someone who never logged out to bypass the ban.  When we noticed someone bypassing their ban, we corrected so the setting is read on every post.  I don't know if that's the case here or not but that would be my guess.

That is entirely new information to me.

Here's what happened: banned on Sunday, logged off Sunday night, went to work, logged in again around Monday noon during lunch break (this time using PC at work, so logging in from a different IP), still banned. Got home Monday evening, turned on the PC, logged in and noticed I was still banned. Tuesday I was unbanned (probably got unbanned sometime Monday night).

During all this time, the other user involved was merrily posting.

Does that help to identify the problem?

Quoting Ken Cole:

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The only other issue with the system that I'm aware of is for a short period after our server crashed, when we set up the new server some of the SQL jobs were not running correctly.  If this occurred in that period, that could also be possible.  If you were banned for more that 24 hours and did not receive a PM indicating the ban period, then it was not intentional and I apologize.

It happened on Jan 2. I did get a PM and it stated something about being unbanned at 12 CST or something like that and I think it must indeed have been a ban that lasted a bit less then 24h (I went to bed earlier on Monday so I couldn't check but I'm pretty sure it must've been less than 24h). I'm actually OK about the that and if my going off-topic was cause for a ban, I don't have a problem accepting it.

But that's not the problem. The problem is I alone got banned yet the other, notorious, member was left alone.

Why ban one member and leave the other one unbanned, if both had their post moderated for going off topic in the same thread?
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=421218&PageNum=11
I had 3 posts removed and got banned for it.
The other user had 8 posts removed, used words like "... with your bird brain" and was left alone.

Please also take the time to read the remaining posts. I wasn't aggressive in any way and remained polite throughout the discussion, yet again was jumped by said user for no apparent reason.

Quoting Alien Redrum:

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IMO, one day is far from enough starting point. Minimum should be at the very least three days, and I would go on to say a one week minimum for first suspension.

A day is nothing.

Yes it is, a day is called a joke. Minimum should be three days, next a week > Month > permanent. AND the MOST IMPORTANT. Other users should be able to see who is banned at the moment. Like we have stars for positive ratings, I think that during the ban user should have a ban logo so other users could actually see that Invelos is doing something. If that sounds harsh, no it's not. User himself/herself has gotten to that point because of his/her own behaviour.

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Ouch. Squeaky hammer. OK, point made, I've changed the system to take at least 24 full hours to unban.

Thank you. This is the beginning of a better direction.

I know when you decided to start your own software company that forum moderation was not on your list of things you would love to do. As others have pointed out though, bans need to be of longer duration to matter much at all. I would rather you not have to spend resources moderating hundreds of posts a month only to have to do it again month after month. 

I think you'll have to moderate much fewer posts if users know the penalties for crossing the line are more severe than just "end of the day" or 24 hours bans. And as you stated earlier, getting the response time down is key. That will save you some clean up work as well. Less moderating for you and less toxic atmosphere for us.

Quoting Taro:

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But that's not the problem. The problem is I alone got banned yet the other, notorious, member was left alone.

Why ban one member and leave the other one unbanned, if both had their post moderated for going off topic in the same thread?
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=421218&PageNum=11
I had 3 posts removed and got banned for it.
The other user had 8 posts removed, used words like "... with your bird brain" and was left alone.

Please also take the time to read the remaining posts. I wasn't aggressive in any way and remained polite throughout the discussion, yet again was jumped by said user for no apparent reason.

The posts were moderated at about 1:30 PM CST on 1/02/10. The other user did not post after that until 3:37 AM CST the next day. It's possible that user was given a ban for 10.5 hours until midnight and was able to resume posting at that time (assuming they were banned at all), whereas you might have gotten caught in the problem that Ken mentioned...assuming that the "when we noticed someone bypassing their ban" part wasn't fixed until after January 2, 2010. Lots of assumptions, but since they don't comment on admin actions...

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Our policy has always been to never comment on user admin actions, but I am willing to reconsider that if necessary.

How about displaying all reputation levels as a deterrent. The lowest level shows that someone is blocked from posting for 24-72 hours.