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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Partial Contributions (Locked) |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote: The fact that she is credited in all the episodes, where however she had negotiated that she would appear in only eight of every twelve episodes made. Is sufficient involvement. That would count if we were looking at a cast list of the series, but we're not. This is a cast list for only one episode. She is not involved in that episode, so we don't list her. She is involved in the series, so her name would count on the parent profile. | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: Maybe because she is listed in the opening credits as an actor?
She may be credited, but she's not involved. In order for her name to count, she has to satisfy both criteria: be credited AND be involved in that episode. How do you know she was not "involved"? Were you there on the set while the episode was being made? We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. This is going nowhere. | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | If we are going this way, we have to revisit all DVD's and watch closely who has an actor credited and is not involved. What ever that may suggest. This is not the only case. The ping pong game is open. Wil Wheaton, Johnny de Mol, Claire Littleton, Henry Ian Cusick, Emilie de Ravin, Jorge Garcia, Josh Holloway, Daniel Dae Kim, Yunjin Kim, Dominic Monaghan, Kiele Sanchez, Rodrigo Santoro, Cirroc Lofton, Liberty Van Zandt, Julia Parsons, ... are some of them, and the list goes on and on. Watch your profiles nothing is safe anymore! | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote: If we are going this way, we have to revisit all DVD's and watch closely who has an actor credited and is not involved. What ever that may suggest. This is not the only case. The ping pong game is open. Wil Wheaton is another one. Watch your profiles nothing is safe anymore! This is going to be true of nearly every TV series to one degree or another. It is a very common practice to list main cast in the opening credits, whether they appear in the episode or not. Glad I've got all of mine locked! | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote: Wil Wheaton is another one. Watch your profiles nothing is safe anymore! If you're talking about Star Trek: TNG then they aren't affected. If I remember rightly, none of the main cast are listed in the end credits, therefore we follow non-standard credit rules. This only applies to films/episodes where we have a partial cast list at the front and a full cast list at the end. This will affect only a few profiles. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: This is going to be true of nearly every TV series to one degree or another.
It is a very common practice to list main cast in the opening credits, whether they appear in the episode or not.
Glad I've got all of mine locked! See my reply to Giga; very few TV series have a full cast list at the end, and so follow the non-standard rules. | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Look here's why I did the cast the way I did....
The opening credits show: Elizabeth Montgomery Dick York Agnes Moorehead as Endora
....no arguments there.
Now, IF the end credits had NOT repeated their names then I would have listed ALL THREE actors in EVERY EPISODE....AND in this case the credits are NOT STANDARD. (This is the case with seasons 4 and 5)
However, the end credits for the episodes REPEAT the 3 actors in the episodes they appear in only. Elizabeth Montgomery appeared in EVERY episode and is credited in the end credits of every episode.
Dick York appeared in all but 1 episode of Season 3 and is credited in the end credits in all episodes EXCEPT the one he didn't appear in.
Agnes Moorehead appeared in a lot (!) of episodes and is credited for the episodes in which she DID appear in the end credits.
So, why in the hell would the makers choose to credits all three actors in the opening credits but then OMIT them from certain episodes? It makes no sense UNLESS they didn't appear in those episodes. Which I subsequently confirmed visually.
No one (Hal) is saying we have to verify everyone's presence visually. I only did this because of this whole debate.
As far as I am concerned the very FACT that some of the principal cast are repeated in the END CREDITS makes them Standard and shows us undeniably who was actually acting in the episode.
To think otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.
I would like Ken/Geri to wade in on this one because, for once, I will not cowtow to the people in this forum. The rules are very clear to me (as they are to the people who disagree with me).
So....please, please, please....Ken/Geri can we have some final say on this matter.
Thank you. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | I'd really like to see you resubmit the cast list with a link to all the topics in which it's discussed and let Ken & Gerri make the final decision regardless of how many "no" votes you get on it. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: Quoting hal9g:
Quote: This is going to be true of nearly every TV series to one degree or another.
It is a very common practice to list main cast in the opening credits, whether they appear in the episode or not.
Glad I've got all of mine locked! See my reply to Giga; very few TV series have a full cast list at the end, and so follow the non-standard rules. So we can delete credited cast who do not appear in some circumstances, but we cannot delete credited cast who do not appear in other circumstances. I thought the whole argument here was to only list the cast that actually appeared in that episode! This is getting curioser and curioser! | | | Hal |
| Registered: May 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,033 |
| Posted: | | | | I don't think this will cause ping pong if its decided to not include actors in this situation. As long as that decision is officially made.
We also don't need to revisit it because as northbloke said, It could be entered with that actor, and then if someone notices that they do not appear in the episode, they can be removed. nothing wrong with a two step process in this situation (except that by some peoples statements every field needs to be entered once 100% correct and then never touched again). Though I still feel that the re-listing of some of the actors from the opening credits in the end credits would be enough of a reason to not include them (ie treat them as standard credits) and then if someone finds that that person did appear to do the reverse and add them in saying, they are in this episode.
uncrediteds are added to list when people appear in a show but aren't credited, That to me seems that the purpose of the credits is to see what movies/shows someone is in. So why include someone that isn't in the show.
the other option is to add a checkbox similar to uncredited for this situation.
I think the real thing is that the rules were written to deal primarily with movies, but TV shows do things quite differently, if only because there are multiple episodes, so rules were put in to address (some of) these differences using standard rules otherwise, but since not everything had been encountered (and there will always be new situations found) the TV rules didnt address everthing it probably needs to.
But yes hal, i can agree with you that this is going nowhere, and have said that myself. So unless we get comment from the man in charge this can (and probably will) go on forever. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 951 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote: I'd really like to see you resubmit the cast list with a link to all the topics in which it's discussed and let Ken & Gerri make the final decision regardless of how many "no" votes you get on it. Yeah that is probably going to be the best, chances of Gerri or Ken making a comment in this thread is probably not going to happen. | | | Are you local? This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: I thought the whole argument here was to only list the cast that actually appeared in that episode!
This is getting curioser and curioser! No, sorry. The argument here is what defines "standard credits" so we know which set of rules to follow. As Pantheon says above, had none of the main cast been listed in the end credits, then the non-standard rules would have been followed and Agnes would have been credited for all episodes as per the non-standard rules. However, because in his (and my) opinion, all involved actors are listed in the end credits, then the standard rules are followed and Agnes is omitted from the episodes where she isn't credited in the end credits. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
uncrediteds are added to list when people appear in a show but aren't credited, That to me seems that the purpose of the credits is to see what movies/shows someone is in. So why include someone that isn't in the show. This is what I'm talking about. Even the two of you who think you are on the same side of this argument, are actually fighting for two different things. Northbloke only wants to remove credited cast if they do not appear in the episode AND if they are not listed in what he defines as "standard" credits. Agare wants to remove credited cast if they do not appear in the episode....period. IF we just enter the credits we see on screen, there is no confusion and we don;t have to worry about visually inspecting the entire episode to see who's there! | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote: This is what I'm talking about. Even the two of you who think you are on the same side of this argument, are actually fighting for two different things.
Northbloke only wants to remove credited cast if they do not appear in the episode AND if they are not listed in what he defines as "standard" credits.
Agare wants to remove credited cast if they do not appear in the episode....period. I read Agrare's post differently. I got the impression that he would like it if we removed credited cast who don't appear, however I don't think he believes that's what the rules currently say. Apologies if I have that wrong. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | In case you overlooked them and you want to visualy inspect the missing actors from the IMDB database where all the information is and started the credited only theme. Johnny de Mol, Claire Littleton, Henry Ian Cusick, Emilie de Ravin, Jorge Garcia, Josh Holloway, Daniel Dae Kim, Yunjin Kim, Dominic Monaghan, Kiele Sanchez, Rodrigo Santoro, Cirroc Lofton, Liberty Van Zandt, Julia Parsons, ... | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote: In case you overlooked them and you want to visualy inspect the missing actors from the IMDB database where all the information is and started the credited only theme. Johnny de Mol, Claire Littleton, Henry Ian Cusick, Emilie de Ravin, Jorge Garcia, Josh Holloway, Daniel Dae Kim, Yunjin Kim, Dominic Monaghan, Kiele Sanchez, Rodrigo Santoro, Cirroc Lofton, Liberty Van Zandt, Julia Parsons, ... I may be missing something - but what's this list got to do with the subject at hand? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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