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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Again, Mathias, you are not demonstarting an understanding of the rules and Why. We are set up to mimic as closely as possible the APPEARANCE of the On Screen Credits. To go as enery suggested would fundamentally change that and make this program yet another variation of others. Enry and severalothers want a DIFFERENT type of accuracy, one which is not based on data. The On screen data is there and all that has to be done is duplicate it, it was also done because it is EASY for EVERY to copy the data On Screen EVERY Time, they don't HAVE to have any special knowledge or do any research they do not want to do. The Program has been designed to accomodate, as much as possible, those who want to do the research and document it, so that they can get the accuracy level they want.
Look at the arguments, mathias. I keep saying data-based, ON Screen. And what do others say,ANYTHING based on data, NO its based on culture, America is weird they use a middle name and we don't over here in Europe or Asian names actually are different from On Screen,etc, etc, etc. ad infinitum. They keep presenting the same arguments. i have yet to see anyone present an argument in the last three years which is data-based and designed to specifically to easy for EVERY user to enter the data, all the culture based arguments require special knowledge and research. And the field as Enry laid out, you are correct would only create more arguments.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Again, Mathias, you are not demonstarting an understanding of the rules and Why. We are set up to mimic as closely as possible the APPEARANCE of the On Screen Credits. To go as enery suggested would fundamentally change that and make this program yet another variation of others. Enry and severalothers want a DIFFERENT type of accuracy, one which is not based on data. The On screen data is there and all that has to be done is duplicate it, it was also done because it is EASY for EVERY to copy the data On Screen EVERY Time, they don't HAVE to have any special knowledge or do any research they do not want to do. The Program has been designed to accomodate, as much as possible, those who want to do the research and document it, so that they can get the accuracy level they want.
Look at the arguments, mathias. I keep saying data-based, ON Screen. And what do others say,ANYTHING based on data, NO its based on culture, America is weird they use a middle name and we don't over here in Europe or Asian names actually are different from On Screen,etc, etc, etc. ad infinitum. They keep presenting the same arguments. i have yet to see anyone present an argument in the last three years which is data-based and designed to specifically to easy for EVERY user to enter the data, all the culture based arguments require special knowledge and research. And the field as Enry laid out, you are correct would only create more arguments.
Skip Skip, What the hell are you talking about here? This is so simple! Current Field Names New Field Names 'First Name', 'Middle Name' -> 'Given Name(s)' 'Last Name' -> 'Family Name(s)' The only way that would be simpler would be to move to a single 'Name' field! pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Paul: You just demonstrated very graphically a clear lack of understanding. For example under your and Enry's proposal Here is the credit and the way it would appear in the program Credit: Li Gong In the program Gong Li That first of violates the entire premise around which the Rules were built. Secondly it mak4es us no better then IMDb, and so on. Once again you are looking at the wrong area fo accuracy. It is not built around culture of any area, it is built around film credits PERIOD. Why you do not understand this simple concept, just has me absolutely astounded, which requires NO knowledge on the part of users. ANYONE can enter data, Familky Name reequires knowledge and research, you can't just enter what you see. The system was designed very carefully and deliberately with the focus being that all users have the ability to enter data the Rules actually achieve that objective very nicely, unless a user wants to whine about ciulture or in their country they pasre data this way or that way, or upside down and backwards or simply refuse to get it, or want the data provided for them pre-canned and they don't have to do ANY work. <shrugs> I don't know and I don't get it. I do Know absolutely that you don't.  Not trying to fight or argue with you Paul, but I can only call it like I see it. Why do we insist on trying to take a very simple process and try to pretzelize it. Skip <shrugs> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting goodguy: Quote:
EnryWiki suggested to move from 3 name fields to 2 name fields. I agree that this would be sufficient, but I don't see it stopping any arguments about "middle names".
Part of them, not all of them. To stop all arguments, we shoud simplify to just one name field, but then we would also lose the sorting by Last Name. Now in DVD Profiler names are sorted by Last Name and I wouldn't want to change that. On the contrary, the Middle Name field is absolutely useless for sorting: we could easily give it up for semplicity sake. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Paul:
You just demonstrated very graphically a clear lack of understanding.
Please stop saying this to everyone that disagrees with you. My translation of this repetitive claim is simply "you are stupid". | | | | Hal |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'll gladly support a petition to get rid of the middle name field! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I'll gladly support a petition to get rid of the middle name field! Unless we go to a single field, this solves nothing. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I'll gladly support a petition to get rid of the middle name field!
Unless we go to a single field, this solves nothing. Not to worry; I've always supported that as well.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have never objected to a SINGLE field, Tim, but that is not something i have anything to with, not my yob man.  @ Hal, you are free to interpret it any way you wish, do you have any idea how many of your posts I find offensive, probably on the order of 60%. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hal:. I will repeat what i have said before, al I am trying to do isa help out with the EASIEST wya to handle it for all users every time IF you are willing to listen. If you don't wish to listen and only wish to be combative, argumentative and insulting, then you aren't helping ANYONE...but I expect no less.  I wish I could expect rationality ...but that is not the way here. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Hal:.
I will repeat what i have said before.....
Skip Yes, this is something you excel at!  Not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with me, since I have agreed with you throughout this thread. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I'll gladly support a petition to get rid of the middle name field!
Unless we go to a single field, this solves nothing.
Not to worry; I've always supported that as well. PROs: 2 fields is simpler than 3 fields (fewer arguments on parsing), but 1 field is simplest (zero arguments). CONs: with just 1 field we would lose the sorting by Last Name as it is now. That's why I think 2 fields would be a good compromise. Of course, the new Given Name field would have to inherit current First Name + Middle Name. As simple as that. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not, hal, from where i sit, i know you agreed, eyt you are also throwing bones of contention which aren't helpful to any of us. I know what you are going to say to this so don't. But I fgure maybe its useful if people have some idea what i was thinking and why, when I went through the entire process which led to the writing team, maybe not. But i am trying to help with this silliness and silliness is what it is, and you can chosse to argue with me or not. But the one thing you can't tell me is what the process was and why it was done the way it is. I don't wish to argue with you or anyone else, unfortunately there are far too many that seem to want to argue with me about nearly anything and everything. I think you find, if you pay attention that there are numerous threads which I do not particiipate in aside from perhaps trying one of my lame one-liners, that is because I have no opinion and nothing to add to the discussion. I DO wish I could figure out why there are some users who wish to pretzelize everything that we are trying to do, when it is really very easy, i have my theories but they will remain MY theories. Again, Hal it is not my wish to fight or argue with you or anyone else, but i will not shrink fvrom a fight either, so as I have said before so many times THAT my friend is up to you.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I'll gladly support a petition to get rid of the middle name field!
Unless we go to a single field, this solves nothing.
Not to worry; I've always supported that as well.
PROs: 2 fields is simpler than 3 fields (fewer arguments on parsing), but 1 field is simplest (zero arguments).
CONs: with just 1 field we would lose the sorting by Last Name as it is now.
That's why I think 2 fields would be a good compromise.
Of course, the new Given Name field would have to inherit current First Name + Middle Name.
As simple as that. NO given name field, period, Enry. for the reasoins i have outlined. We are trying to mimic as closely as possible to what the film credits say. you are working from an entirely DIFFERENT perspective and ione which would become nightmarish and would return the database back to the days when it was near useless. I, for one anm not interested in watching you demoilish the hundreds of thousands if not millionms of man hours that have gone into getting the database to where it is today. nor am I interested in WRONGLY interpreting because of your perspective or applying a given name because you say so. What you fail to recognoze Enry, is that yes A/B?c creates data that needs fixing, so do will your system, in short there is no perfect answer, short of ONE single field. I also suspect that the amount of errors introduced under your system would far surpass the errors of A/B/C. Now if you want to be able to search on last name in a One Field setup, you simply add a substring filter. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
PROs: 2 fields is simpler than 3 fields (fewer arguments on parsing), but 1 field is simplest (zero arguments).
I'm not sure why you think there would be fewer arguments about parsing. Arguments about double-barrelled last names will still happen as people debate whether the "middle part" of the name goes into the "Family Name" field or the "Given Name" field. The only argument that would be averted would possibly be compound first names like "Billy Jo" or "Peggy Sue". But I haven't honestly seen too many of those. Also, Skip makes a very valid point about changing the database at this stage. Ken would not be able to automate going to "two fields", as he would if we were going to just "one field". Ken just needs to fix actor linking so that it ignores parsing altogether. Linking needs to do its comparison as though it were a single field. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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