Quoting Pantheon:

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There's a famous quote (which I'm probably going to get wrong) - "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing".

Just because it is one of my favorite quotes: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Nice to see you back.

Quoting skipnet50:

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Take for example a thread in which Stuuart was involved, in which a new user has made three posts plus one PM all of them have been nasty and inflammtory. I am to sit back and put up with that crap., NO LONGER. His behavior was absolutely unacceptable but Stuart did not call him on it. Sorry, pal, the self-righteousness around here STINKs along with the accompanying double standard, the only thing that stinks worse is behavior of most users.

I am listening...but I ain't buying. Show me.

I hope this is the last thing I have to say on this topic.

Skip

I'll admit, I was a bit naughty there.

Mainly, my approach was different, that's all. The user was angry and responded in anger. The best way to deal with someone who's angry... well, being in their face and shouty certainly ain't it - all you're likely to get from that is more anger! Agree with genuine points, whilst also pointing out where you don't necessarily agree. If you can get to a point of talking with them adult to adult, using reason and fact to communicate, then that's a change for the good.

I sympathized with the users complaint, but also suggested that they may wish to rethink applying when in that frame of mind (that was the call out - it wasn't a situation that warranted more than that, although a follow up post would have warranted a more direct request). Al three posts were made in fairly short order and were a continuation of the same anger (also, I didn't read them until they were all posted). Asking for improved behaviour does NOT have to start out by calling them a jerk (such as happened in in the thread that sparked the user's anger.

There WAS a deliberately-transparent veiled dig at Skip, but I felt that Skip had two goes at the user (quite why the first one wasn't enough, I don't know) and they were clearly accusing the user of something he had committed himself. I thought it would do good for general forum-user relations to diffuse that Skip-user-Skip-user-etc. retaliation by removing the need for an angry response from the user whilst also showing Skip that he should probably engage his brain before putting his fingers into gear.

Doesn't really excuse it, but it may well have resulted in a diffused situation.

If I were being naughty, at this point I might say something like 'you have no idea of my motives and you don't know anything about me, so STOP judging me and look to your OWN behaviour!'... but that kind of humour would just be wicked.

Stuart
P.S. Yes, that one was a bit below the belt (although humour was intended), so I will remove it if someone thinks I should.

Edit: Oops, missed a bit.

Quoting skipnet50:

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Stuart had even used PART of a comment I made and did not bother to look at the context of that quote evidently. So he in essence excused the gross behavior this foolish user, in order to attack me for responding to a nasty post.

Skip

Actually, I took the part I thought relevant. The 'helping' comment was about an fairly unhelpful post (as the user acknowledged) and I didn't want to confuse things with two counter-points in one quote. The only other thing I cut was an affirmation of the intended belittling, which I thought would be overkill. Skip, if you think it unfairly represented your case, I'm sorry.

Now, you see how that works?

(Not) Quoting Pantheon:

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...Stuff...

Thanks for that. I will admit to also having had troubled nights over this thread, but thought it was right to pursue and hoped for more good than bad.

Don't know why I'm a good member though - mostly all I've done is tell people off, and that's not very nice!

I should also add my own 'good' experience of the forum members. Back at Intervocative, I remember a PM thanking me for my good work in updating some neglected profiles. Turned what had been a bad day completely around. I can't for the life of remember who it was, but thank you.

Stuart
Hmm, maybe these cakes work.

Quoting Pantheon:

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I'm loathe to start this thread up again...but feel I need to say something.

I've been using profiler for apprx 9 years now (I think); but it took me about six of those before I discovered the old Intervocative forum (what a numpty!).

My first few days in the forum where a LIVING HELL. I got criticised for contributions; for my defence of said contributions and many more things.

Eventually it was a series of PM arguments that led to me find the Profiler 'way' and since then I have been a constant contributor to this excellent Programme (thanks to LOPEK for the PMs ( ) and to Ken/Geri for the programme).

In those first few weeks Skip made my life a living hell. I hated him. That persecution in the forum spilled over into my private life (what a muppet I was!!) and I had sleepless nights. It was ridiculous.

It took a good year before I managed to put this whole thing in perspective and eventually become a valued (I like to think) member of this community....for a while!

But, things can never stay the same and eventually the ugly face of bigotry and anger reared its head in the forum again......once again from Skip and Rifter.
I was appalled and disgusted with things they said - and to my shame - I couldn't stand to get into another bout of 'I'm right, you're wrong' with them (especially as they're never wrong supposedly ).
Rather than stand up for my beliefs/lifestyle/feelings I decided that a graceful retreat would be preferable for my health and state of mind.

Looking back, maybe I was wrong.

There's a famous quote (which I'm probably going to get wrong) - "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing".

Whenever someone is being victimised they need others to stand up with them. They need support. Bullies can never be stopped unless people stand against them.

In closing:
I've been reading this thread, and others, recently and see no change in Skip's behaviour in all these long years (despite numerous very friendly PM's and a period of mutual respect).

Skip, you ARE a deplorable bully. It isn't called for. You don't need to do it. You shouldn't do it.

Not everyone is going to turn the other cheek as I once did. They're going to fight back.

Personally, I wish you would stick to your extensive knowledge of this programme and DVDs (as I said in our recent PM) and drop the nastiness - then you would get respect.

As for me - like you - I've finally had enough.

I AM NOT YOUR FRIEND. I have NEVER been your friend. You are just text in cyberspace who I have, on occassion, allowed to hurt me. Never again.

As for everyone else in the forum (and especially to Lopek, RichieRich, Hal and newbies northbloke, Darius). It's great to see that they're still some great people around.

Pantheon

(Hands up if you got REALLY bored reading all that!!  )

Points I missed:

1. If someone says something you don't like confront them about it - nicely! Do not sink to their level.

2. Try to remember that what may be just words to you can have a REAL impact on the person reading them. Not everyone is able to let things wash over them.

Well, Neill, I do consider you my friend, as I do very nearly everyone here, including surfeur. I do not have time or energy for such concerns.

Skip

Quoting Dr. Killpatient:

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Whoa, my comment about spice cake receipies is making an impact!

Sorry Doc I should have credited you but I couldn't remember where I read it; obvious since I made it fruit cake instead of spice cake!

Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting DariusKyrak:

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(Not) Quoting Pantheon:

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...Stuff...

Don't know why I'm a good member though - mostly all I've done is tell people off, and that's not very nice!


Stuart
Hmm, maybe these cakes work.

Don't take offense, Stuart. This is actually the most positive comment I have seen come out of this thread. You are correct, and it is why I have said repeatedly look to your own house and stop worrying about mine. Almost nobody that has posted to this thread has any credibility because of the own gross behavior, and the whine falls on deaf ears. I finally see someone with a glimmer of recognition.

Skip

No offense taken. I certainly wouldn't want this thread to define my image in other's eyes, but it may well do just that. I just wish that you could see that much of what you do also has a negative impact, and would make allowances for it. I think that it's tragic because of the good you've done - I think it's been overshadowed by your unwillingness to consider others.

But we're not going to progress it, so let's not bother trying at this point.

Stuart

Quoting skipnet50:

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But ity is much easier to like people and accept them as they are...

Whooo... I'm glad to see you love me whining... 

Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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I do not have time or energy for such concerns.

Skip

And therein lies the problem.

Maybe if you took the time to be concerned about how the things you say affect other people the forum would be a happier place.

I am only speaking from my own personal experience of past events.

Very simply....pause before you post and consider the impact your words may have. Consider whether your sarcasm or sense of humour could hurt someone - and then rephrase your comments.

It's really not hard to post comments in this forum without being sarcastic or rude.  Try it.

Pantheon

Neill:

Did you even understand what I said...it doesn't appear so. I don't have the time and energy required to dislike or hate someone. If you do, more poiwer to you...I guess. But ity is much easier to like people and accept them as they are, and in that I do consider you a friend as I do nearly everyone.

Skip

My apologies, Skip for misunderstanding the context of your statement.