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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | If someone gets a "Songs By" credit (and yes, they're original songs) in the opening credits, and those songs are again listed deep down in the end credits, then which credit(s) do we enter? Same person, credited in two places for writing the same song(s). |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm afraid, I don't understand the question: What is the diffence between the opening and the end credits? | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
I'm afraid, I don't understand the question: What is the diffence between the opening and the end credits? Well, the opening credits appear at the start of the film, and the end credits at the very end... Both "opening credits" and "end credits" are used in the contribution rules as well, so I didn't think I was using weird terminology here... Anyway: it's not unusual for (the main) cast members to be credited in both, and the rules even specifically address this: Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film. The credits may be listed "in order of appearance", "alphabetical order" or in an order of importance decided by the filmmakers. Some actors may be credited a second time in either credits at either the opening or close of the film. But crew members credited in both the opening and the end credits aren't addressed - hence the question. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Basically I recognize them, when I see the opening credits. The others, when I fell asleep, must then be the end credits...  Can you give an example, where the opening credits for a song writer are different from the end credits for the same song? - I assume, that's your problem... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unless the credit w somehow different, I am not sure what the question is...unless you are talking about order.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
But crew members credited in both the opening and the end credits aren't addressed - hence the question. Unless the person is credited differently in the opening and closing credits I don't see why it makes any difference. What I personally do is use the opening credits (when they exist) for the crew that are listed there, and use the closing credits for the crew that aren't listed in the opening credits. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think T!M is talking about movies like the 1989 Batman I just started working on yesterday. Prince is credited in the opening credits with "Songs Written and Performed by" and again in the end credits with several different songs in the song list. I personally chose the easy way, rather than try to find out which songs were actually written for the film, I used the opening credit. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
I think T!M is talking about movies like the 1989 Batman I just started working on yesterday. Prince is credited in the opening credits with "Songs Written and Performed by" and again in the end credits with several different songs in the song list. This, exactly. |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK, we have an example... Opening credits:  End credits:  | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | From my point of view, it does not matter which one is used. They are the same.
For sorting order I'd tend to list the ones mentioned in the opening credits first.
But: If the songs would have been listed seperatly in the end credits (mixed with songs from other song writers), I think it would be nice to use the sorting order of the end credits - especially if there are dividers to name the songs... hmmm...
In any case we should check if the songs were originally written for the movie.
... but I still won't vote on this. | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) | | | | Last edited: by AiAustria |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Aside from the 'Batman' example from mreeder50, there are much more - the problem pretty much arises any time a "song writer" is credited in both the opening credits and the end credits. That's why I tried to keep the question generic. Here's another example, though, '¡Three Amigos!': Screenshot from opening credits:  The next screen has "Score by Elmer Bernstein". Now a screenshot from end credits:  Whether these credits are different, as some have asked, very much depends on whether you use dividers for song titles or not. If you don't, then yes, they're the same, and then it's just about the order. In that case, I'd prefer the order from the opening credits: here, Randy Newman is credited before the composer of the film's score, Elmer Bernstein. But if you *do* want to use group dividers for the song titles in the end credits (although a lone song writer clearly doesn't constitute a "crew team", as the contribution rules demand), then it gets more complicated. So do we track the opening credit, the closing credits, or both? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's a completely other question, if we list the song writers with dividers for their songs... As far as I can see, some of us afford it to do list each song with a correct divider, which I personally prefer, while others don't. The rule set does not guide us here. On one hand this is much more work, than only listing a name. But it documents the song, which can be useful when checking or arguing if it is an original song: ... and it looks much prettier...  As long as nobody removes the more detailed information, I'm fine with the loose ruleset on this... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Whether to use dividers is a separate debate - oldest discussion here - which, as so many, won't get a definitive answer right now. I know that, so I wasn't asking for that here. The question I asked specifically aims at cases where a song writer is credited both in the opening credits and in the closing credits. So once again: would you profile the "Songs By" credit from the opening credits (no divider for that one, obviously)? Or would you ignore that credit, and instead list the song writing credits from the end credits (no matter whether you'd do that with or without dividers)? Or would you enter both? Judging from the poll results, it's yet another case of "anything goes"...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
From my point of view, it does not matter which one is used. They are the same.
For sorting order I'd tend to list the ones mentioned in the opening credits first.
But: If the songs would have been listed seperatly in the end credits (mixed with songs from other song writers), I think it would be nice to use the sorting order of the end credits - especially if there are dividers to name the songs... hmmm...
In any case we should check if the songs were originally written for the movie.
... but I still won't vote on this. I am re-auditing Batman right now. If there is some way to figure out which songs were written for the movie, I will be glad to list the songs as dividers and the song writers under each. I really wish we had a place to go to find out which songs were written for the movie. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since there is a whole Album from Prince called Batman, whose right were signed over to Warner Bros., I'd say, all of them were originally written for this movie... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
From my point of view, it does not matter which one is used. They are the same.
For sorting order I'd tend to list the ones mentioned in the opening credits first.
But: If the songs would have been listed seperatly in the end credits (mixed with songs from other song writers), I think it would be nice to use the sorting order of the end credits - especially if there are dividers to name the songs... hmmm...
In any case we should check if the songs were originally written for the movie.
... but I still won't vote on this.
I am re-auditing Batman right now. If there is some way to figure out which songs were written for the movie, I will be glad to list the songs as dividers and the song writers under each. I really wish we had a place to go to find out which songs were written for the movie. Sometimes allmusic.com can be helpful. I've found a few obscure credits there (when either adding or removing a songwriter) and they usually list all the albums a song has appeared on, starting with the earliest. If I need to resort to more searching of the web, at least I have that information at hand while doing it. As for the original question at hand, I try to put in as much info as I can into the profile, so if Randy Newman is credited with writing three original songs during the end credits, I'd use those, as that's much more informative than the opening credit. I've never even given much thought to whether or not I'd enter both... and now I'm not so sure... but I'd probably stick with the route that gives the most info, and in a case like that, it would be the closing credits. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
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