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| Eagle | Registered: Oct 31, 2001 |
Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 563 |
| Posted: | | | | Given that Paul Walker's 2 brothers acted as stand-ins for him after he lost his life, I was wondering if they should be credited within DVDPro, since they basically played the role of Brian O'Conner for almost half the film. Below is a screenshot of the end of the main cast section of the closing credits. In the current profile, all cast is credited up through Jorge-Luis Pallo as Cop. On screen, the cast list then immediately jumps into the Stunt Coordinators and Pilots with no break, followed by the stand-in credits for Paul's 2 brothers. Should Caleb & Cody be listed in the Cast in the profile or not? | | | My phpDVDprofiler collection |
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Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,131 |
| Posted: | | | | Don't think stand-ins qualify for a cast credit. I would vote no. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Agree I would vote no for stand-ins as well. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | This is what I don't understand about DVDP. We allow puppeteers in the cast list. We allow Voice Loop Groups in the cast list, even when listed well apart from the cast. We allow pilots and stunt people too. But here we have a cast list that is unbroken and lists stunt people and stand ins together with the cast without interruption and we say no. Plus the fact that there are tons of sites that confirm that they appeared in the film to stand in for their brother.
Where in the rules does it forbid pilots, stunt people or even stand ins?
Now the definition of actor comes into play and some would say that a stand in is not an actor. Well according to the definition they are. From Merriam Webster: 1 : one that acts : doer 2 a : one who represents a character in a dramatic production b : a theatrical performer c : one who behaves as if acting a part
So in this case we have a well documented fact that they represented Brian O'Connor, so they definitely fit the definition of an actor. Even if we didn't know what character they represented they would still be an actor because they represented a character.
So my vote is yes, include them. |
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Registered: September 18, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,650 |
| Posted: | | | | Of course they should be included.
If you can include uncredited cast members, then why not cast members why are credited? If people don't think they are 'real' cast credits then list them as uncredited with a confirmation they are in the film. |
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Registered: August 4, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,441 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote: This is what I don't understand about DVDP. We allow puppeteers in the cast list. We allow Voice Loop Groups in the cast list, even when listed well apart from the cast. We allow pilots and stunt people too.
We allow puppeteers when they are the cast list, and we allow voice actor of course, Voice Loop Groups are crew and I don't see them listed in cast credit, we shouldn't allow Voice Loop Groups. | | | Updated List of Accepted Birth Years |
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Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,131 |
| Posted: | | | | For those who think they should be listed. Is it just for this film that SI should be credited because of the circumstances. Or should it be for all movies. If 1 film gets SI credited, all movies should get the SI credit. Almost every film has SI credited. Usually at least 2. So for the 6500 films I have, that's about 13,000 more cast credits of usually 1-time credited people. Would probably include actor/actress with same names as existing database credits and the need for more BY. Then there would be suggestions on including Doubles, Photo Doubles, Body Doubles, etc. |
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Registered: October 17, 2010 | Posts: 298 |
| Posted: | | | | I don't think that stand ins and body doubles are comparable to stuntmen and loop group. The first don't do anything remotely creative, they are just in the scene because the real actor isn't needed (or, as in this case, available). Stuntmen and loop group really do give a performance and therefore much more important for the film. | | | Recently bought films:
The Matrix [Blu-ray] | Shirins Wedding [DVD] | The Graduate [Blu-ray] | Prometheus [Blu-ray 3D] | Hwal [DVD] |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | As long as they match the definition of what an actor is then I say yes that all stand ins should be credited. And that goes for any other cast credit, as long as they are listed in the cast section of the end credits than I think that we shouldn't second guess the film studio.
If they are listed under crew then no, they shouldn't as the film studio decided that they are crew and not cast. |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Discostu: Quote: I don't think that stand ins and body doubles are comparable to stuntmen and loop group. The first don't do anything remotely creative, they are just in the scene because the real actor isn't needed (or, as in this case, available). Stuntmen and loop group really do give a performance and therefore much more important for the film. Is that a general statement about all stand ins or just this movie? If it's about this movie then there are plenty of behind the scenes footage, news sites and other stuff that confirm that Paul's brothers did far more than just stand there. Through out the film there are scenes where they had to walk around, run around and other "acting" and then have visual effects replace their heads with Pauls. There was a fairly good break down on the IMDB forums. |
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Registered: October 17, 2010 | Posts: 298 |
| Posted: | | | | I was talking about the job in general, it might be a different matter in this movie. | | | Recently bought films:
The Matrix [Blu-ray] | Shirins Wedding [DVD] | The Graduate [Blu-ray] | Prometheus [Blu-ray 3D] | Hwal [DVD] |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Personally, I have no interest in tracking stand-ins - neither here nor in general. The fact that Paul Walker's brothers acted as stand-ins is a nice bit of trivia, but that's all. A nice bit of trivia, not a cast credit. |
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| Eagle | Registered: Oct 31, 2001 |
Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 563 |
| Posted: | | | | In general, I would not consider adding stand-ins, given their nature. In this situation, however, Caleb & Cody really weren't traditional stand-ins...they actually performed the role for literally half the film and had Paul's head digitally inserted over their own. Based on the feedback here, I will add them locally and lock it down. | | | My phpDVDprofiler collection |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Personally, I have no interest in tracking stand-ins - neither here nor in general. The fact that Paul Walker's brothers acted as stand-ins is a nice bit of trivia, but that's all. A nice bit of trivia, not a cast credit. If they are listed within the cast section how are they not cast? It shouldn't matter what we think, it should matter where the credit lies. If it's good enough for the studio to list them as cast why should we remove them? |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote: If they are listed within the cast section how are they not cast? That's a question for when that's actually the case. Here, to me, the cast list has ends when it gets to the stunt coordinators. As always, though, I realise that there's no consensus about that sort of thing. Hence the use of "to me" in the previous sentence and "Personally" in my previous post. I'm just stating how I feel, but I'm well aware that there are other opinions as well, and without input from Invelos (and likely even then, as we've seen) those differing opinions will never get any closer together. Unfortunate, but that's how it is. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,245 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote: If they are listed within the cast section how are they not cast? That's a question for when that's actually the case. Here, to me, the cast list has ends when it gets to the stunt coordinators. As always, though, I realise that there's no consensus about that sort of thing. Hence the use of "to me" in the previous sentence and "Personally" in my previous post. I'm just stating how I feel, but I'm well aware that there are other opinions as well, and without input from Invelos (and likely even then, as we've seen) those differing opinions will never get any closer together. Unfortunate, but that's how it is. Which is why this really needs to be added into the rules as to what is a cast and where it ends. In my opinion, and in this case, since there is no break between any of these names they are all cast. That also includes those listed under Stunts. In this case all those listed under the Stunts heading is listed in the cast section. After the Stunts listing then there is a clear separation which indicates the end of the cast. |
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