| Author |
Message |
| Registered: June 26, 2013 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 694 |
| | Posted: | | | | only a simple question. is the real name Chris Patrick-Simpson can i publish Chris Patrick-Simpson [credited as Chris Patrick Simpson]? the problem is that a common name does not help here. clt result: Chris Simpson50 Dead Men Walking (Actor) <- false is Chris Patrick-Simpson "credited as Chris Patrick Simpson" The Magdalene Sisters (Actor) <- Chris Patrick-Simpson "credited as Chris Simpson" Magna Carta: Ticket to the Moon (Singer / Song Writer) Survivor: Season One (Film Editor) Chris Patrick Simpson50 Dead Men Walking (Actor) <- is Chris Patrick-Simpson "credited as Chris Patrick Simpson" http://chrispatricksimpson.com/about/so can i publish Chris Patrick-Simpson [credited as Chris Patrick Simpson]? cheers emmeli | | | 
the real BirthYear OverView | | | | Last edited: by emmeli |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Per Ken's clarification.. it don't matter what the "real name" is... you go strictly by the credited name. And us the most commonly credited name as the common name. | | | | Pete |
|
| Registered: June 26, 2013 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 694 |
| | Posted: | | | | so you can see clt result is wrong, as credited not as credited. all Chris Simpson for 50 Dead Men Walking are false. he is credited as Chris Patrick Simpson.
so we have
cast:
Chris Simpson (Actor) <- we know it is Chris Patrick-Simpson (check link)
Chris Simpson (Singer / Song Writer)
Chris Simpson (Film Editor)
and
Chris Patrick Simpson (Actor)
a most commonly credited name as the common name is not possible because wrong profiles committed.
a BY for Chris Simpson would exclude the Chris Patrick Simpson, but he is se same actor.
to use the real name, would clear all. | | |
the real BirthYear OverView | | | | Last edited: by emmeli |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | All you do in such a case is start one (of the many that can be seen in this forum) common name threads... and find out the true most commonly name.
Per the rules and Ken's clarification you have 1 of 2 choices...
1. Use the name the CLT says is the most commonly credited name
2. find the true most commonly credited name per a common name thread.
Per the rules and Ken's clarification it does not matter at all what a cast member's "Real Name" is. | | | | Pete |
|
| Registered: June 26, 2013 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 694 |
| | Posted: | | | | ... and we build next faulty profiles because this clt result is wrong.
the result can only be good as the records are and which are not properly. so it is not possible to assign the right person. | | |
the real BirthYear OverView |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Those are the rules that Invelos gave us to go by... it is all we can do if we want to contribute the info to the main online database. And the CLT goes by what is in the Credited As field... so as long as the credited name is in the Credit As field... the CLT will only get better. | | | | Pete |
|
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting emmeli: Quote:
so it is not possible to assign the right person. Those rules are a nightmare. And we have always the same guy who jumps to defend them...  | | | | Images from movies |
|
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is not entirely fair, Yves. Pete never said he is 100% happy with the rules as they are, merely that he believes they should be followed if you want to contribute. |
|
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
That is not entirely fair, Yves. Pete never said he is 100% happy with the rules as they are, merely that he believes they should be followed if you want to contribute. Each time I proposed a change in the Contribution Rules Committee, he voted against it, and never proposed anything to improve name rules. So... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
|
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just because I do not agree with your proposals... and I have no proposal that will fix the problem with just a rules change. That does not mean I agree 100% with the rules as they are written. I believe the only true fix will come with a program change.
1. what you repeatedly suggested I completely disagree with... and in my honest opinion would make things worse then they are now.
2. I have no idea of any rules change that would make things better.
3. I feel there needs to be a program change to actually fix the problem... without a program change as much as I do not care for it I believe we have the best rule to go along with the way the program works now.
4. I think Hal's solution is the best one I have heard so far (he would have to give you the details...as I don't really remember them all myself)... but that would be a program change,
I hope that makes it perfectly clear... just because I do not support your idea or have any idea of my own which is better then we have now does not mean I am happy with the way it is now. Only that I will do my best to make things work with the program and rules we have now. Especially over an idea that I truly feel is worse then we have now. | | | | Pete |
|
| Registered: September 3, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting emmeli: Quote:
... and we build next faulty profiles because this clt result is wrong.
the result can only be good as the records are and which are not properly. so it is not possible to assign the right person. You can always take a closer look at the results then. CLT before closer look: Chris Simpson: 10 titles - 34 profiles Chris Patrick Simpson: 3 titles - 3 profiles Chris Patrick-Simpson: 0 titles - 0 profiles CLT after closer look (counting only the correct profiles) If you say it should be Chris Patrick Simpson for 50 Dead Men Walking then these are the results Chris Simpson: 1 title - 24 profiles Chris Patrick Simpson: 1 title - 3 profiles (even if you count the other profiles here it's still 1 title - 11 profiles) Chris Patrick-Simpson: 0 titles - 0 profiles The common name is Chris Simpson and you will have to add the BY to distinguish him from the editor and the singer. Chris Simpson Actor >> BY = 1979 Chris Simpson Editor >> BY = ?? Chris Simpson Singer >> BY = ?? | | | | Mitch |
|
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
...what you repeatedly suggested I completely disagree with... and in my honest opinion would make things worse then they are now. Interesting... can you develop ? For example, I made those proposals to avoid some useless variants: - use maiden name for actresses who use both married and maiden name. - for Asian names, always put family name in last name field - for actors using both complete middle name and just initial, or no middle name, always use complete middle name -... Can you explain how those rules changes would make things worse ? How can that be worse then some automatic changes as Jr./,Jr. which were implemented by Ken himself ? I always said that I am for a program change. I also wrote "Unfortunately, I'm convinced that we'll never see it (Please, Ken, show us I'm wrong...)". Of course Ken didn't answer anything, and never confirmed he was still working on what he wrote in his post of January 18, 2011 (that makes about 3 years isn't it ?) | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
|
| Registered: June 26, 2013 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mitchg: Quote:
Quoting emmeli:
Quote:
... and we build next faulty profiles because this clt result is wrong.
the result can only be good as the records are and which are not properly. so it is not possible to assign the right person.
CLT after closer look (counting only the correct profiles)
If you say it should be Chris Patrick Simpson for 50 Dead Men Walking then these are the results
Chris Simpson: 1 title - 24 profiles
Chris Patrick Simpson: 1 title - 3 profiles (even if you count the other profiles here it's still 1 title - 11 profiles)
Chris Patrick-Simpson: 0 titles - 0 profiles
The common name is Chris Simpson and you will have to add the BY to distinguish him from the editor and the singer.
Chris Simpson Actor >> BY = 1979
Chris Simpson Editor >> BY = ??
Chris Simpson Singer >> BY = ?? No! 1:1 for Chris Simpson vs Chris Patrick Simpson. and Chris Patrick Simpson is closer to the real name. a BY for Chris Simpson does not include Chris Patrick Simpson. a common name for him can you not find. we have 1:1. but this is not my rules. | | |
the real BirthYear OverView |
|
| Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting emmeli: Quote:
Quoting mitchg:
Quote:
Quoting emmeli:
Quote:
... and we build next faulty profiles because this clt result is wrong.
the result can only be good as the records are and which are not properly. so it is not possible to assign the right person.
CLT after closer look (counting only the correct profiles)
If you say it should be Chris Patrick Simpson for 50 Dead Men Walking then these are the results
Chris Simpson: 1 title - 24 profiles
Chris Patrick Simpson: 1 title - 3 profiles (even if you count the other profiles here it's still 1 title - 11 profiles)
Chris Patrick-Simpson: 0 titles - 0 profiles
The common name is Chris Simpson and you will have to add the BY to distinguish him from the editor and the singer.
Chris Simpson Actor >> BY = 1979
Chris Simpson Editor >> BY = ??
Chris Simpson Singer >> BY = ??
No! 1:1 for Chris Simpson vs Chris Patrick Simpson. and Chris Patrick Simpson is closer to the real name. a BY for Chris Simpson does not include Chris Patrick Simpson. a common name for him can you not find. we have 1:1. but this is not my rules. It is simple, the common name is the most common credited name for profiles in the Invelos database. Not what you or anyone think is the "real" name. The common credited name is quantifiable and is objective and provides a common name that can be justified by the numbers. As per Ken's clarifications the common name is based on title count, and if the title counts match then the tie breaker is profile count. The rules allow for you to dispute the CLT and do provide a common name that differs from the CLT if it is proven and documented (common name thread). In the cases where there are multiple people with the same name it is still possible to get a more accurate common name by using the CLT, by manually counting the correct titles and profiles as mitchg did. Many times you have to manually count titles anyway because of incorrect original titles, production years and TV child profiles skews the title counts. | | | | Last edited: by Scooter1836 |
|
| Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting emmeli:
Quote:
so it is not possible to assign the right person. Those rules are a nightmare. And we have always the same guy who jumps to defend them... I will jump in and defend them as Pete did. The rules need to be followed to provide data consistency in the database. I like many others do not agree with all the rules, however like Pete I believe they should be followed if you want to contribute. Also like many others I would like a better linking system. But at this point we have what we have and we need to abide by the rules the database owner has set for that field definition if we wish to contribute the field. | | | | Last edited: by Scooter1836 |
|
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Surfeur should possibly have used the plural.
Agree with Scooter1836 completely.
EDIT
And as usual:
If you don't agree with the rules and have your own preferences and ideas on how to handle datafields this is absolutely no problem. You just have to keep the data local and will (most likely) have to do most of the work by (and for) yourself.
I do this for about a month now and have to admit that working on profiles has become a whole lot easier. Best of all: I don't have to care anymore about the (IMO partially absurd) rule-interpretations one can meet in this forum. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
|