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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Arts & Entertainment Network
A&E Network
A&E
Has morphed and spun off so many times that it makes my head spin.
I'm now working on a profile for a an episode about Dwight D. Eisenhower, and I'm at a loss as to how to enter the DVD title and a bunch of other stuff.
From the front cover art:
A & E's Award Winning Series
Biography
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Commander-In-Chief
This supposedly aired first on June 6, 2004. The catalog number is AAE-71932.
It is supposedly episode 317 of 1172 episodes, but I can't find it on AETV.com.
IMDB thinks it's something like this:
Dwight D. Eisenhower: Supreme Commander-in-Chief (2004) (TV Episode)
- Biography (1987) (TV Series)
The title menu goes like this:
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Commander-In-Chief
Biography
So what are your votes for what goes into the original title / sort title?
Some other questions about cast and crew credits.
Many commentators and historians are presented thru the documentary, and their names and titles appear when they are on screen. None of them are credited in the end credits.
So in this instance:
George F. Will
Syndicated Columnist
Do I credit him as "name", himself, or does "syndicated columnist" get tucked in there somewhere?
And for an appearance by "Dr. John Smith", is he "John Smith" credited as "Dr. John Smith", even though none of these guys appear in opening or ending credits?
How and where do you identify people shown in archive footage but not identified in opening credits or ending credits or screen title / credit as they appear. For instance, you have archive footage of Mimi Eisenhower, and the narrator says "Mimi Eisenhower" when she appears on screen, but Mimi is nothing but a picture with no lines and no credits anywhere? |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think you need an Original Title for this one, as the front cover pretty much matches the disc menu. And as Title, I would suggest: "Biography: Dwight D. Eisenhower: Commander-In-Chief".
Interviewees, identified by captions during the film, should be entered in your cast list BEFORE any cast mentioned in the end credits (usually just a "narrator"). Whether they should be entered as e.g. "Himself" or "Historian" in the role name field: I'm not so sure myself, to be honest, but I'm inclined to match the on-screen captions as closely as possible, so in this example I would probably enter "Historian" if that's what the caption says.
"Dr. John Smith": I would apply the honorifics rule here, so indeed "John Smith" credited as "Dr. John Smith".
And I would leave out people who are visible in archive footage only.
Just my 2 cents.
DJ |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was just looking thru my other documentaries and "Crazy Love" looks promising.
"Name" him/herself (Friend/Biographer/Title/Whatever)
This doesn't seem remotely standardized, however.
For "This Film Is Not Yet Rated", no one is him/herself. John Waters is instead given the role of "Director, A Dirty Shame". That's got to be confusing when you see people credited as "Director, Producer" above and more directors and producers down in the crew section.
The documentary is in color, except for the archival footage which is B/W, so I'm guessing the "color" checkbox? |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | More questions on this.
So I see the talking head of a retired US Army General.
Under that I get:
Wesley K. Clark
General, US Army, Retired
So does that follow the standard honorific rule of
Name:
Wesley K. Clark
CredAs:
[Wesley K. Clark, General, US Army, Retired]
And for family members ...
Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Granddaughter-in-law
Is the "Granddaughter-in-law" treated as an honorific, generating a credited as, OR ...
Does it just go out in parentheses next to the "Herself":
Julie Nixon Eisenhower Herself (Granddaughter-in-law)
John McCain
US Senator
John McCain [John McCain, US Senator] Himself
-or-
John McCain Himself (US Senator)
Dr. William Ewald
Eisenhower Speech Writer
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald, Eisenhower Speech Writer] Himself
-or-
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald] Himself (Eisenhower Speech Writer)
Thanks |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote:
I was just looking thru my other documentaries and "Crazy Love" looks promising.
"Name" him/herself (Friend/Biographer/Title/Whatever)
This doesn't seem remotely standardized, however.
For "This Film Is Not Yet Rated", no one is him/herself. John Waters is instead given the role of "Director, A Dirty Shame". That's got to be confusing when you see people credited as "Director, Producer" above and more directors and producers down in the crew section.
The documentary is in color, except for the archival footage which is B/W, so I'm guessing the "color" checkbox? Role Names match the credits... we standardize to credits when there is a role given... when there is not a role given we are allowed to use other sources... but I personally leave the role blank when none given... which Ken himself said is also completely acceptable. If there is both color footage and black and white footage it would be mixed as long as it falls into the 10% rule. Don't see how it matters if it is archival footage... it is still part of the documentary. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote:
More questions on this.
So I see the talking head of a retired US Army General.
Under that I get:
Wesley K. Clark
General, US Army, Retired
So does that follow the standard honorific rule of
Name:
Wesley K. Clark
CredAs:
[Wesley K. Clark, General, US Army, Retired]
And for family members ...
Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Granddaughter-in-law
Is the "Granddaughter-in-law" treated as an honorific, generating a credited as, OR ...
Does it just go out in parentheses next to the "Herself":
Julie Nixon Eisenhower Herself (Granddaughter-in-law)
John McCain
US Senator
John McCain [John McCain, US Senator] Himself
-or-
John McCain Himself (US Senator)
Dr. William Ewald
Eisenhower Speech Writer
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald, Eisenhower Speech Writer] Himself
-or-
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald] Himself (Eisenhower Speech Writer)
Thanks All these sounds like names and roles to me. I would not add Himself or Herself unless it shows that on screen or you could if it just shows the name alone. I would go with... Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon Role: Granddaughter-in-law Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald] Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer etc. I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
All these sounds like names and roles to me. I would not add Himself or Herself unless it shows that on screen or you could if it just shows the name alone.
I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law
Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer
etc.
I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it. I have a problem with this. Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life.  Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator.  I personally favor ... Name: John McCain CredAs: John McCain, US Senator Role: Himself and because "granddaughter" seems an unlikely honorific to me ... Name: Mary Jean Eisenhower CredAs: Role: Herself (Granddaughter) But I could also live with Name: John McCain CredAs: Role: Himself (US Senator) |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Another detail on this is "Music by Pump Audio" in the end credits.
If this got a credit, what would it look like, for a company vs a person? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sorry... but I completely disagree... It may not be a part they are playing in a scripted show... but it is still their role... their role in life. The way I said is the way I believe is correct per the rules we have. So for me at least... I would vote no to either of what you are suggesting.
Going by those screen caps I would only contribute or vote yes to...
Name: Mary Jean Eisenhower
Role: Granddaughter
Name: John McCain
Role: US Senator
Anything else I believe is against the rules as they are written. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote:
I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law
Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer
etc.
I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it. I have a problem with this. Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life. Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator. I personally favor ... Name: John McCain CredAs: John McCain, US Senator Role: Himself This is way I've also done it. I can't recall getting any "no" votes or having a profile declined either. Sorry Pete but "role in life" is a bit of a stretch to me. We are discussing the roles in film - not life. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
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| Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | According to Merriam-Webster: Quote:
role: the character played by an actor
: a part that someone or something has in a particular activity or situation
: the part that someone has in a family, society, or other group For a "movie," the first definition would apply; for a documentary, the second and/or third. Having dozens of people listed as "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Quoting lasitter:
Quote:
I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law
Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer
etc.
I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it.
I have a problem with this.
Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life.
Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator.
I personally favor ...
Name: John McCain
CredAs: John McCain, US Senator
Role: Himself
This is way I've also done it. I can't recall getting any "no" votes or having a profile declined either.
Sorry Pete but "role in life" is a bit of a stretch to me. We are discussing the roles in film - not life. See what CalebAndCo posted... he explained what I was trying to say much better. The second 2 definitions is what I was trying to say. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CalebAndCo: Quote:
Having dozens of people listed as "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles. I believe both are equally useful and the rules support the use of "himself/herself". |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | In terms of honorifics, I certainly think that Senator as well as Generals qualify.
Since office holders retain their honorifics after leaving office, we typically address Bob Dole as "Senator Bob Dole" as well as addressing current office holder John McCain as "Senator John McCain".
I can see that we have a difference of opinion on the subject. Except for the "Music by Pump Audio" I've got enough for a complete submission now. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
Having dozens of people listed as "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles.
I believe both are equally useful and the rules support the use of "himself/herself". And I truly believe that adding himself or herself would be against the rules... as they are imho credited with a role. Just because the role matches who they are don't make it any less of a role. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | |  This is what I'm planning to go with for now. I know I'll get some no votes and the thing may get spiked, but it's aesthetically pleasing, more detailed and less confusing than many of the other documentaries I've looked at. As a reminder, almost NONE of this shows up in the end credits. They're listed in order of appearance. What's in parentheses is exactly as it appears on the screen, I thought about honorifics for the professors, but they're not credited as "Professor Jack M. Hall", so I did them the other way. Still looking for guidance on the sound listing thing. | | | | Last edited: by lasitter |
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