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| Registered: January 20, 2008 |  Posts: 37 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm wondering, can uncredited cast members now be entered into a profile without listing any source whatsoever? The rules only say this about uncredited cast: Quote:
Uncredited actors may be listed in alphabetical order following all credited actors. Use the "Uncredited" checkbox to indicate these. Uncredited actors are not required entries. In this thread there is a quote of some older rules: Quote:
Please submit uncredited cast only if:
- You have personally identified the cast by viewing the film
- -OR- The cast is copied from a previously accepted profile with documented uncredited cast
Be sure to specify the source in your contribution notes Why was that rule removed? I have just no-voted a contribution of an uncredited cast member, where no source was listed whatsoever. I firmly believe that when adding members to the cast that are not credited, one should provide documentation for it, even if only as an affirmation of visual identification by the contributor him/herself. If no documentation or source is required, one could potentially add anyone to anything, because the rules does not prohibit it. I hope I'm overlooking something in the rules, though, and that this requirement is still there. If it is, it should be placed at a more accessible place in the rules. If it's not, it should be re-added. If not, I'd like to hear arguments why no source should be necessary for adding uncredited cast... Thanks! |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting cartman76: Quote:
In this thread there is a quote of some older rules:
Quote:
Please submit uncredited cast only if:
- You have personally identified the cast by viewing the film
- -OR- The cast is copied from a previously accepted profile with documented uncredited cast
Be sure to specify the source in your contribution notes
Why was that rule removed? I don't believe this was ever part of The Rules. It's something you see at the bottom of the submission screen when you have new uncredited cast in your contribution. You have to check a box implying that you agree to these terms, and it should, I think, be treated as an extension of the official rules. I'd also like to see it amended so that if one is copying uncredited from another profile that the documentation must be copied also. --------------- |
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| Registered: January 20, 2008 | | Posts: 37 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ah, thanks! You're right, it's there clear as day when you make a contribution, on the page where you're supposed to add contribution notes.
Then my no-vote is perfectly legit; the rules are clear about needing a valid source of this. But it should be part of the rules page as well to avoid confusion. |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting cartman76: Quote:
Then my no-vote is perfectly legit; the rules are clear about needing a valid source of this. The only "valid source" that was ever needed to get an (uncredited) cast entry approved is the contributor telling us that he spotted someone while watching that particular film of TV episode. Nothing more. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Alternatively...just don't add them!  I HATE all the uncredited rubbish that's in the database! |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | There are many movies where top actors were uncredited when they played little roles at the beginning of their career, such as Denzel Washington in Death Wish (just an example). My main use of dvdprofiler is to find who played in which movies of my collection, and uncredited cast, from this point of view, has as much importance than credited ones (in fact I don't care about credits, what is important is who played in the movie).
So, if I understand the need to document uncredited actors, I also think that to remove uncredited actors must be done very carefully. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Alternatively...just don't add them! I HATE all the uncredited rubbish that's in the database! I do too, but leaving out all uncredited actors is not the solution. I have mostly older films, and many of them have large or important parts that are uncredited. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Did you not see my to indicate that I was not being overly serious??? I already know and understand why other people add uncredited cast. I, personally, ONLY include those names I recognise and strip everything else out of my profiles. I don't care if 'Peter Jones' is in blah blah film. IF, and that's a big IF, he ever gets famous I'll worry about it then. So, I wasn't making a serious suggestion. Although, I will say, if you're not personally bothered by them then don't add them. Also, NEVER copy uncredited cast from profile to profile without personally verifying them as this simply results in more IMDB-mined rubbish polluting the database. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
...IMDB-mined rubbish polluting the database. IMDb-mined data is far more exact than Invelos rules invented data. Rubbish polluting the database does not come from IMDb, it comes from insane rules. I cannot understand how people can accept that Ziyi ZHANG does not link wih ZHANG Ziyi, or Jean-Paul Belmondo with Jean Paul Belmondo. That is what we get with Invelos database, not with IMDb. In fact, IMDb-mined profiles were the best ones in Invelos database. Unfortunately, they are disappearing with people replacing correct names with misspelled crap invented by rules, destroying the linking in other users databases. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yves - when you post I feel like I'm in the movie Groundhog Day. I know what you're going to say before you say it!  |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
I know what you're going to say before you say it! Most of my posts are in the image from movies thread... Can you tell me next movie I'll post ? Seriously, if some users stopped saying that the best (though not perfect) actors database is rubbish, and stopped saying that the worst one is what we must dream of, I would not have to repeat evidences. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I wasn't going to post in this thread... but after that last post I feel like I must.
It may be the best for YOUR purposes... but it is not for everyone. For some people's purposes it is the worse. And we are allowed to have that opinion... and state that opinion just as much as you are allowed to yours.
In addition... I never once saw anyone state that anyone had to agree with us or can't have/use whatever they like. Only that they cannot upload this info to the online. Which is only because that is what Invelos themselves decided on. Whether I (or anyone else) agrees with Invelos on this does not matter in the least. Just like it wouldn't matter in the least what I think if Ken changed his mind on this and decided to use them for the database.
For me personally...
IMDb=worst
DVDP=best
And I am entitled to that position no less then you are entitled to the opposite opinion.
But seriously... the way you go on it feels like you will not be happy and will not stop until everyone agrees with you. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Yves - when you post I feel like I'm in the movie Groundhog Day. I know what you're going to say before you say it! Somehow I prefer the Bill Murray version. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
... the way you go on it feels like you will not be happy and will not stop until everyone agrees with you. I don't care about everyone agrees or not with me. My purpose is to send a message to Ken saying that some users are not happy with his choices about cast and crew, and that he might improve a non working system. Of course, he will do what he wants, but if everybody tells him that his linking system is the Eighth Wonder of the World, sure he will do nothing. You'll be happy, but I'm not sure everybody will. Nearly two years ago, Ken wrote he would work on a new system. I fear that with people like you saying every two days that everything is perfect, he has stopped any improvement. | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
... the way you go on it feels like you will not be happy and will not stop until everyone agrees with you.
I don't care about everyone agrees or not with me. My purpose is to send a message to Ken saying that some users are not happy with his choices about cast and crew, and that he might improve a non working system. Of course, he will do what he wants, but if everybody tells him that his linking system is the Eighth Wonder of the World, sure he will do nothing. You'll be happy, but I'm not sure everybody will.
Nearly two years ago, Ken wrote he would work on a new system. I fear that with people like you saying every two days that everything is perfect, he has stopped any improvement. What makes you think I am happy with the linking system? I have been very vocal about not liking the current linking system. I have been a supporter of Hal's idea of a linking system since this system was introduced. I never once said I was even close to happy with the current system... All I ever said is... 1. I prefer Hal's idea, but I can make this one work 2. I am totally against using IMDb data in our database Please show me any post where I said the current linking system is perfect. Stop putting words in my mouth!  | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
My purpose is to send a message to Ken OK, but after the 500th attempt I'd think you'd be the one getting the message. --------------- |
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