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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | In the recently released "Alice in Wonderland" (025195-053563) there is a credit of "Masks and Costumes by WALLY WESTMORE and NEWT JONS". There is no seperate credit for make-up or wardrobe.
Would you say these two crew people be credited with make-up and costumes, or with costumes only? Much of the character "make-up" is in fact masks that heavily obscure the actors underneath, but I don't see "masks" specifically mentioned in the credit table.
Also, there is a credit for "Technical Effects" which I would put under "Visual Effects", but again I don't see "Technical" listed in the credit table. What are your thoughts?
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Technical Effects...NO
Masks and Costumes sounds like Costume Desgner to me. How would it possibly be make-up. A Mask can be make-Up , bit more likely just a part of costume, think of the Halloween Costumes you wore as a kid, Those masks aren't make-up.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | 'Costumes [by]' is a valid Profiler credit so I would include them as Costume Designer. Masks aren't make-up, so I would not include them for that.
I would also leave out 'Technical Effects'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: August 4, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,441 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
In the recently released "Alice in Wonderland" (025195-053563) there is a credit of "Masks and Costumes by WALLY WESTMORE and NEWT JONS". There is no seperate credit for make-up or wardrobe.
Would you say these two crew people be credited with make-up and costumes, or with costumes only? Much of the character "make-up" is in fact masks that heavily obscure the actors underneath, but I don't see "masks" specifically mentioned in the credit table. In this case I think that "masks" are part of costumes, than they are only costume designers, not make-up artists. Quote:
Also, there is a credit for "Technical Effects" which I would put under "Visual Effects", but again I don't see "Technical" listed in the credit table. What are your thoughts?
--------------- "Technical Effects" could be a lot of things, if isn't specified "visual" I don't collect them. | | | | Updated List of Accepted Birth Years |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Despite the fact that Wally Westmore and Newt Johns really are make-up artists, "Masks" doesn't qualify for anything, but "Costumes By" qualifies for "costume designer".
"Technical Effects" doesn't qualify for a credit in DVD Profiler either. If it was the only effects-related credit, I'd track it locally, but I'm sure there are plenty actual "visual effects supervisor" credits to be found here as well, right? In that case, I feel those are the people we're looking for, and then I wouldn't even track this "Technical Effects" credit locally. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Whatever these guys say. I purposely didn't contribute my cast and crew for this profile because of stuff like this.
For what it's worth, locally I gave the two make-up guys a costume credit, I have no make-up credit, and I did credit the technical effects guys for visual effects. It doesn't matter to me what goes in the online, but what those two guys did shows up on film as a special effect, regardless of what you call it.
What's really crazy is that Menzies has a screenplay credit and no art direction credit, yet it's so obviously a Menzies production design. But that one I just left alone. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
"Technical Effects" doesn't qualify for a credit in DVD Profiler either. If it was the only effects-related credit, I'd track it locally, but I'm sure there are plenty actual "visual effects supervisor" credits to be found here as well, right? Uhmmm, no. This movie was made in 1933 and such credits were pretty sparse. Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
I purposely didn't contribute my cast and crew for this profile because of stuff like this. I suspected as much. I've just contributed what should be non-controversial. --------------- | | | | Last edited: by scotthm |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's all the same to me, but how can Paramount Pictures and Paramount Productions both be in the production studios? Aren't they both effectively the same organization? What I mean is, don't we have to choose just one? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Good pooint, and i would make it Paramount Pictures.
SKip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
It's all the same to me, but how can Paramount Pictures and Paramount Productions both be in the production studios? Aren't they both effectively the same organization? What I mean is, don't we have to choose just one? It depends on how the studio was set up back in the '30s but, generally speaking, you would be correct. How do the credits read? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was just coming back to this, Martian. And agree with you. It does say Paramount on the back cover copyright 1933, but that isn't really relevant. I would go with On Screen data, I can't say that I can remember Paramount Productions, but then I can't remember everything either. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do not remember a Paramouns Productions studio either, nor can I find anything refering to them. My gut tells me that the credits read something along the lines of, "A Paramount Production" and somebody added the 's', which is why I am curious as to what the credits say. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | I wasn't really questioning where he came by his data as I've already profiled this. For those who don't have it yet, it opens with the typical Paramount mountain with "A Paramount Picture" splayed across it, then fades to the title credits. At the bottom of the title credits there is a "copyright blah blah by Paramount Productions, Inc." So that's where the two sources are coming from. For me, it's just another in-studio production and these are generally referred to as "Paramount Pictures".
Like I said, I don't really care as I've already made my choice locally, but having them both just seems wrong. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
How do the credits read? Per screen credits: "A Paramount Picture" fades to "Paramount Presents". Title screen shows, "Copyright MCMXXXIII by Paramount Productions, Inc." Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
having them both just seems wrong. Does having both Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Lowe's seem wrong on MGM films? --------------- | | | | Last edited: by scotthm |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
How do the credits read?
Per screen credits:
"A Paramount Picture" fades to "Paramount Presents".
Title screen shows, "Copyright MCMXXXIII by Paramount Productions, Inc." That is a corporate copyright, similar to Universal Studios, and something we don't usually use. I would leave it as just 'Paramount Pictures'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
having them both just seems wrong.
Does having both Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Lowe's seem wrong on MGM films?
--------------- If you're asking me, then yeah. But that's why I remove it locally. I always thought the Lowes thing was silly and had about zero value-add as far as data goes. However it's not really pertinent here as Paramount is a single entity while Lowes/MGM were two distinctly seperate business units. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
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