Deborah Lurie: composer
John Ottman: song writer

It's all right here in the rules:



Two things are important to notice here:

1. The "composer" credit is to be "used for the composer of the film's Original Score." Nothing more, nothing less. The rules even name four possible credits ("Music by" et al) to identify these composers.

2. The "incorrect" column specifically says NOT to give "composer" credits to "Songs by Song/Music writers". This is where things get interesting - let's split it up, shall we?

"Songs by Song writers"
"Songs by Music writers"

Surely we're all clear on what "songs by song writers" means, right? Original songs, written especially for the movie. These get "song writer" credits, obviously. But what can the rules possibly mean by "Songs by Music writers"? Both the score and any original songs are already covered. There's nothing else left, so "Songs by Music writers" can only refer to instrumental pieces of music ("themes"). So it's right there: the rules call instrumental pieces of music "songs". "Songs by Music writers", that is, but still: "songs". So, while the rules explicitly prohibit the use of "composer" for "songs by music writers" (by listing it in the "incorrect" column), in that same fell swoop the rules DO declare such instrumental themes as "songs". That means that we CAN credit them as "song writers".

Quoting Rygaard:

Quote:
I also belive the a song writer has written something containing actual singing. Not all themes do involve singing and therefore differs a little...

Lots of people believe lots of things. It is, however, about what's actually in the rules. Outside definitions of what constitutes a "song" carry no weight in the DVD Profiler world. It appears to be difficult for some of us to understand that. This is purely about how we look at theme writers for DVD Profiler purposes, and therefore we do not rely on outside definitions, but on our own set of specific rules. As shown above, the rules do actually address themes: they're called "songs by music writers".

Quote:
I voted for the Themes By credit.

Sure, that would get everyone on the same page immediately. So I'm obviously not against it, I'm just saying it's not absolutely necessary: theme writers can be perfectly profiled in accordance with the current rules, as outlined above.

I beg to differ. Anyway - history has indeed shown we will never come a consensus on whether we should use a "song writer" credit for these. But if you look at the credits table, it should be clear for all parties that we can certainly NOT use "composer". Again, the rules state that the "composer" credit is to be "used for the composer of the film's Original Score." The rules even go so far as to name four possible credits ("Music by", "Music composed by", "Score by" and "Score composed by"). That part of the credits table really isn't open for multiple interpretations - Deborah Lurie's on-screen credit (from Giga Wizard's original post) does qualify for a "composer" credit, John Ottman's credit doesn't.

Now whether you use "song writer" for it or wait until Ken adds a "theme by" credit, that is up to you. But using "composer" really is out of the question - for the online database, of course.

As I pointed out earlier: this is an area in which users forget to look at the rules, but instead tend to let their own definitions get the better of them. User cvermeylen feels that "a theme is an integral part of the score, and is often re-used in the rest of the score and should deserve composer credits." That's nice, but the credits table REALLY doesn't allow for that. Again: I don't care whether you use "song writer" or leave the credit out altogether - I know which way I've chosen, but that doesn't matter - but using "composer" is absolutely out of the question if you look at what's in the crew credits table for the "composer" credit.

Again, Giga Wizard's on-screen credits say this:

Music by: Deborah Lurie
Themes by: John Ottman

The rules say this on the "composer" credit:



There isn't anything there that allows you to award both equal "composer" credits. I'm really curious how those seven people that voted for "composer" came to their conclusion, as it's very clearly not allowed by the rules.

Quoting Patsa:

Quote:
No composer credit, until we get Themes by. Otherwise we're just adding a lot of useless and confusing information that will be harder to correct than to add once we get the proper credit implemented.

Why would it be harder to correct than not adding anything?

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Beethoven was NOT a song writer

You sure about that? 

Take note, Tim, that I am not taking a position. other than the definition of SONG WRITER. Personally speaking I want a Theme by credit option.

Skip

I agree with that Cubby. The Greatest American Hero is a Song, Magnum PI is NOT.

Skip

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
I agree with that Cubby. The Greatest American Hero is a Song, Magnum PI is NOT.

Absolutely wrong. Again, you're all bringing outside definitions into this, that don't have any bearing on how we look at things for DVD Profiler purposes. But again: let's not go there... Neither of us will ever relent, so there's just no use.

What's most important is that both parties should agree that theme writers do NOT qualify for a "composer" credit under any circumstance. It's simply not allowed by the rules,

Welllll ... not exactly.

What's clearly not allowed by the rules -- as you show when you bring over part of the table from the rules are "Songs by" or "Song/Music Writers"  -- so it DOES matter your definition of a song.  I would argue that a theme is not necessarily a song -- especially if it doesn't include words or vocals -- but it IS definitely a composition -- thus a Composer credit could be appropriate.